Who ARE the "Good Guys???"

[thebeann]

Now I'm torn:

Widmore vs Linus, who is the good guy?

Why Charles Widmore is the BAD GUY and Ben is the GOOD GUY.
-Ben believes that he is doing something 'for the greater good' therefore his actions justified
-Ben perhaps wants to protect the island from the real world (or vice versa)
-Tape of Widmore beating someone up suggests he is a bad guy
-Note from Michael (presumably) warns to not trust Captain, who is working for Widmore
-WIdmore did keep Des from Penny. That doesn't make him a world-class bad guy, but there is potential

WHy Ben Linus is the BAD GUY and Charles WIdmore is the GOOD GUY
-Ben has proven himself somewhat to be a childish, possessive person.
-Ben did kill his own dad - okay, he was a dick but didn't seem worthy of being murdered.
-Ben killed an entire community (The Purge)
-Ben shot Locke
-Ben kidnapped three people and held them hostage
-Ben pretty much kept Juliet hostage on the island
-Ben brainwashes people (Karl - also had Karl beat up and other stuff for dating his daughter)
-Stole Alex from her real mom.

I don't know. We haven't seen much of WIdmore yet but it will be interesting to see how it plays out. More and more it is looking like Ben is the bad guy.

[TheGoodPeople]

i think they're both evil, working towards the same sinister end, against each other.

[Lost_viewer]

Compared to Widmore, I would say Ben is a nun.

[solost]

Now I'm torn:

Widmore vs Linus, who is the good guy?

Why Charles Widmore is the BAD GUY and Ben is the GOOD GUY.
-Ben believes that he is doing something 'for the greater good' therefore his actions justified
-Ben perhaps wants to protect the island from the real world (or vice versa)
-Tape of Widmore beating someone up suggests he is a bad guy
-Note from Michael (presumably) warns to not trust Captain, who is working for Widmore
-WIdmore did keep Des from Penny. That doesn't make him a world-class bad guy, but there is potential

WHy Ben Linus is the BAD GUY and Charles WIdmore is the GOOD GUY
-Ben has proven himself somewhat to be a childish, possessive person.
-Ben did kill his own dad - okay, he was a dick but didn't seem worthy of being murdered.
-Ben killed an entire community (The Purge)
-Ben shot Locke
-Ben kidnapped three people and held them hostage
-Ben pretty much kept Juliet hostage on the island
-Ben brainwashes people (Karl - also had Karl beat up and other stuff for dating his daughter)
-Stole Alex from her real mom.

I don't know. We haven't seen much of WIdmore yet but it will be interesting to see how it plays out. More and more it is looking like Ben is the bad guy.

You forgot that he beat the CRAP out of Swayer and worst of all he abused bunny number 8. That makes him a really bad guy!

[Gutterball94]

Compared to Widmore, I would say Ben is a nun.

I would have agreed with you, until the freighters disarmed the poison gas. I think that Ben is doing what he always does best, lying. Locke fell for it, again. Widmore doesn't have great intentions, but if we know that Ben is alive and hiring Syid to kill people for him in the future then Widmore's exploiting of the island (if that is even what his intentions are (remember BEN told us that)) is still fairly trivial in comparison.
We still need more information though. And I do have to say, Widmore could be more dangerous. After all money is a weapon.

[goober]

Ben does what he does to protect the island. He is machiavellian in that "the end justifies the means", but is it more evil to want to protect the island or to want to exploit it (as Widmore would like to)

Now you can say that Ben is a fanatic and thus amoral and evil, but less evil than Widmore.

Then again if you were protecting your family (or your country) from people that you believed to be evil, what would your limits be??? or would you also feel that "the end justifies the means"

[thebeann]

I would agree with you Goober but there is no denying that Ben is unstable. His possessiveness of Juliet is an example. Plus, why be hostile to the crashees? If he wanted Jack to do surgery, all he had to do was ask but instead, he held him hostage. And he shot Locke after he found out Locke heard Jacob.

Unstable. Maybe his motives are noble but he has gone beyond reasonable. It better be some d*mn secret for him to do what he has done.

[Maxor127]

I think in the end, Ben will be seen as a good guy.  He's creepy and whacked out, but his actions serve a purpose.  And that purpose is for the greater good.  At the very least, I think Ben will turn out being the lesser of two evils.  That's why Sayid is helping him, that's why Jack and Hurley want to go back to the island.  Because ultimately they know that Ben was right and they were wrong.

[matahari]

This question always kills me. We don't know their true motives so its hard to say who the "good guys" are. It's hard to tell in real life too. It's really a question of whose goals your aligned with and to what degree the means are justified by the ends. Until more light is shed on the motives of Widmore & Ben, it is hard to identify the good guy.

[on the island]

Compared to Widmore, I would say Ben is a nun.

What have we seen Widmore do that was so bad?  I tend to get Dharma, Hanso, Widmore and Others confused at times, but other than telling Des he couldn't marry Penny, have we really seen him do anything bad?  We have Ben's word that whoever Widmore captured was murdered, but I'm still not trusting anything Ben says. 

[opgelost]

WHy Ben Linus is the BAD GUY
-Ben has proven himself somewhat to be a childish, possessive person.
-Ben did kill his own dad - okay, he was a dick but didn't seem worthy of being murdered.
-Ben killed an entire community (The Purge)
-Ben shot Locke
-Ben kidnapped three people and held them hostage
-Ben pretty much kept Juliet hostage on the island
-Ben brainwashes people (Karl - also had Karl beat up and other stuff for dating his daughter)
-Stole Alex from her real mom.

- Ben made Michael kill Libby and Ana-Lucia
- Ben takes kids and keep them away from their parents (the 2 from flight 815, Alex and Walt)
- Ben kills mothers and unborn babies (if he would let them give birth off the island, they would live like Sun and daughter)
- Ben send Goodwin to Ana-Lucia to be killed
- Ben kidnappes pregnant mothers to study them
- Ben shoots Charlotte
- Ben sends Mikhail to kill the two girls in the underwaterthing
- Ben forces Locke to kill his father
- Ben uses Sayid to kill people off the island
- Ben burns symbols in the back of people

[Blackrock Bob]

Compared to Widmore, I would say Ben is a nun.

I think you have it backwards. I think compared to Ben, Widmore is a nun.
I also think that Mr. Paik is worse than Widmore and Ben.

[matahari]

Who is in cahoots with who at this point? There are so many cross ties between the head honchos, i get so confused.

Team Ben

-originally  Dharma/Hanso
-Dharma backed by Widmore (until purge?)
-Richard Alpert and Mittelos bio-sci by default.
-unknown funding from real world?

Team Hanso
-it's easier if I let Lostpedia tell you...
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Hanso_foundation

and Alvar Hanso...
http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Alvar_hanso

Team Widmore
-Charles Widmore, not Penny
-Widmore labs/pharmaceuticals/constrcution etc... http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Widmore_Industries
-Widmore headqaurters are the same as Hanso headquarters. Once in cahoots w/ Alvar Hanso
-Hanso replaced by Mittelwerk (of Mittelos?)
-Gets rid of Desmond, solo race
-Funds freighter to find Ben
-Widmore outbids many people for the black rock journal


Team Paik
-Paik industries http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Paik_Heavy_Industries
-Paik hires Jin to be his goon
-Paik forces Jin to send "messages"
-Paik catches Sun with her lover and he kills himself.
-Paik had the doctor lie to Sun about her fertility.
-Widmore has ties to Paik industries

[LostAndSeek]

Bernard, Rose, Jin, Claire and Jack are about the only (semi) regulars who haven't murdered anyone.

Well, Sun, but she lies a lot. 

[matahari]

She's also an adulteress. She got her husband involved in crime and she lies a lot too. She shot Colleen, ok in self-defense.