Could Ben have staged the crash?

[PrincessLeia]

I'm late getting in on this one, but here are my thoughts.

Like cbw said...it's not hard to come up with bodies in the field of science, even though the DI was on the fringe of conventional research.  I hate to bring too much TLE info to the table, as TPTB have stated that not all of it is the gospel truth, but the Sri Lanka video talks about the Hanso Foundation's research resulting in a 30% mortality rate of 2 villages.  My point is- they have access to real bodies.

There's also the Gary Troup (turbine man) connection.  He authored a book on the Valenzetti Equation that Alvar Hanso supposedly brought up all copies of.  He had written Bad Twin (which Sawyer found the manuscript of), which, although it was fiction (metafictional actually), implicated Widmore, Hanso, & Paik in unethical business/scientific ventures.  The person(s) responsible for the crash may have been trying to silence him.  TPTB have stated that Bad Twin IS a part of their intended Lost expanded universe.

A key piece of info that I'd like to have access to in this discussion is- WHO was on Jacob's list, & WHY?  We all know the connections...Jack & Claire, Des & Jack (with Sara's "miracle"), Locke & Sawyer (with Cooper), Hurley & Libby, Sayid & Kelvin, etc...  It seems as though some really were brought to the Island for a specific purpose.  While TPTB have confirmed that the plane did crash because Des failed to push the button, we have not been given an explanation why the plane was already 1,000 miles off course.  I KNOW I know I know the "magic box" is a metaphor, but is it possible that Ben "wished" for a spinal surgeon, & the universe delivered one?   

My opinion is that many multi-national private & government agencies with deep pockets & the proper motivation have come together to pull this off.  It seems that different groups have different reasons for staging the crash.  But @ the same time...I think they were all drawn to the Island by a greater cosmic force.  The classic Lostian themes of fate/coincidence, men of faith/men of science, money/economics/power, irony, & redemption are ALL in play.  IF there has to be ONE person behind it all....I do see Ben as a strong possibility.

I love this woman.  Thanks for this.  (((JESS))

She has her moments.

[nomteticus]

Maybe they could do it, but WHY stage the crash? They would have stopped looking after a while. It seems a lot of effort for no real gain.

The duplication theory seems to make sense, we saw the bunny, the polar bear (which apparently came on the island the same way) and there is also a reference in the Lost video game, but I won't spoil it for you.

So, yeah, I'm leaning towards the duplicate plane theory (which doesn't really imply MPU, because it duplicated in the same reality).

[LostAndSeek]

I'm not buying any "cloning" theory till we see some evidence on the show. Besides if they could do this then why sink the plane in the Sunda Trench? Sink it where it can be brought up and the bodies identified.

[LostAndSeek]

PL, loved most of your post, but if Ben needs a spinal surgeon he can go get one. We now know he travels off the Island and has experts brought in as needed. No need to magically send a plane off course and then hope Des gets distracted.

[opgelost]

He wanted to be sure the search didn't continue, particularly anywhere near the Island.

It seems to me that they started searching harder after finding the plane and that finding the plane in that spot made them suspect there could be survivors of the crash instead of making them believe they were all dead. I think the plane is found somewhere near the island.
If I was Ben and wanted to distract attention putting a fake plane somewhere, I would have put it somewhere very distant from the island on the original route of the plane or somewhere in the artic, where Penny's people where looking for the island.

I'm not buying any "cloning" theory till we see some evidence on the show. Besides if they could do this then why sink the plane in the Sunda Trench? Sink it where it can be brought up and the bodies identified.

I don't think someone did this. It just happened, because of the islands propreties in combination with Desmond being late pushing the button.
Ben isn't happy with all these people on his island. He has no hand in it.

It happened because it was supposed to happen or just because it happened.
The losties where supposed to take that plane and crash on the island.
I still have no idea why, the universe correcting itself, Jacob looking for help, someone messing with time.

[cbw420]

I'm late getting in on this one, but here are my thoughts.

Like cbw said...it's not hard to come up with bodies in the field of science, even though the DI was on the fringe of conventional research.  I hate to bring too much TLE info to the table, as TPTB have stated that not all of it is the gospel truth, but the Sri Lanka video talks about the Hanso Foundation's research resulting in a 30% mortality rate of 2 villages.  My point is- they have access to real bodies.

There's also the Gary Troup (turbine man) connection.  He authored a book on the Valenzetti Equation that Alvar Hanso supposedly brought up all copies of.  He had written Bad Twin (which Sawyer found the manuscript of), which, although it was fiction (metafictional actually), implicated Widmore, Hanso, & Paik in unethical business/scientific ventures.  The person(s) responsible for the crash may have been trying to silence him.  TPTB have stated that Bad Twin IS a part of their intended Lost expanded universe.

A key piece of info that I'd like to have access to in this discussion is- WHO was on Jacob's list, & WHY?  We all know the connections...Jack & Claire, Des & Jack (with Sara's "miracle"), Locke & Sawyer (with Cooper), Hurley & Libby, Sayid & Kelvin, etc...  It seems as though some really were brought to the Island for a specific purpose.  While TPTB have confirmed that the plane did crash because Des failed to push the button, we have not been given an explanation why the plane was already 1,000 miles off course.  I KNOW I know I know the "magic box" is a metaphor, but is it possible that Ben "wished" for a spinal surgeon, & the universe delivered one?   

My opinion is that many multi-national private & government agencies with deep pockets & the proper motivation have come together to pull this off.  It seems that different groups have different reasons for staging the crash.  But @ the same time...I think they were all drawn to the Island by a greater cosmic force.  The classic Lostian themes of fate/coincidence, men of faith/men of science, money/economics/power, irony, & redemption are ALL in play.  IF there has to be ONE person behind it all....I do see Ben as a strong possibility.

i get fired up when you post stuff like this, that and mentioning my post in your post, gets me fired up lol

[BobBX542]

I'm late getting in on this one, but here are my thoughts.

Like cbw said...it's not hard to come up with bodies in the field of science, even though the DI was on the fringe of conventional research.  I hate to bring too much TLE info to the table, as TPTB have stated that not all of it is the gospel truth, but the Sri Lanka video talks about the Hanso Foundation's research resulting in a 30% mortality rate of 2 villages.  My point is- they have access to real bodies.

There's also the Gary Troup (turbine man) connection.  He authored a book on the Valenzetti Equation that Alvar Hanso supposedly brought up all copies of.  He had written Bad Twin (which Sawyer found the manuscript of), which, although it was fiction (metafictional actually), implicated Widmore, Hanso, & Paik in unethical business/scientific ventures.  The person(s) responsible for the crash may have been trying to silence him.  TPTB have stated that Bad Twin IS a part of their intended Lost expanded universe.

A key piece of info that I'd like to have access to in this discussion is- WHO was on Jacob's list, & WHY?  We all know the connections...Jack & Claire, Des & Jack (with Sara's "miracle"), Locke & Sawyer (with Cooper), Hurley & Libby, Sayid & Kelvin, etc...  It seems as though some really were brought to the Island for a specific purpose.  While TPTB have confirmed that the plane did crash because Des failed to push the button, we have not been given an explanation why the plane was already 1,000 miles off course.  I KNOW I know I know the "magic box" is a metaphor, but is it possible that Ben "wished" for a spinal surgeon, & the universe delivered one?   

My opinion is that many multi-national private & government agencies with deep pockets & the proper motivation have come together to pull this off.  It seems that different groups have different reasons for staging the crash.  But @ the same time...I think they were all drawn to the Island by a greater cosmic force.  The classic Lostian themes of fate/coincidence, men of faith/men of science, money/economics/power, irony, & redemption are ALL in play.  IF there has to be ONE person behind it all....I do see Ben as a strong possibility.

Yeah, what she said.

[R3lient]

Good point.

For Ben to stage all this, and include every single body from the plane, i just don't see how he could have done this, maybe a twist to make us THINK he staged it, then BAM the writers pull something from out of their sleeve and surprise us.

its not hard to aquire bodies with the right money, have you ever seen the Exhibit called Bodies?

they just did a special on it, and how the get the bodies for it

a man with bens' money (as we've seen) and his means of doing things, its HIGHLY possible

K, just wasn't very clear... by the way, if Ben HAS that kind of cash, why did he tell Miles he doesn't have that kind of cash, but he could stage that... hmmm...

[cbw420]

Good point.

For Ben to stage all this, and include every single body from the plane, i just don't see how he could have done this, maybe a twist to make us THINK he staged it, then BAM the writers pull something from out of their sleeve and surprise us.

its not hard to aquire bodies with the right money, have you ever seen the Exhibit called Bodies?

they just did a special on it, and how the get the bodies for it

a man with bens' money (as we've seen) and his means of doing things, its HIGHLY possible

K, just wasn't very clear... by the way, if Ben HAS that kind of cash, why did he tell Miles he doesn't have that kind of cash, but he could stage that... hmmm...

he told miles he didnt have that kind of cash, miles then said "dont treat me like i am one of them, i know who you are and what you can do"

ben realized he was outed and said he couldnt get the cash that quick because he was a prisoner, miles then gave him an extra couple of days

ben has the cash

[Jas0n]

I'm late getting in on this one, but here are my thoughts.

Like cbw said...it's not hard to come up with bodies in the field of science, even though the DI was on the fringe of conventional research.  I hate to bring too much TLE info to the table, as TPTB have stated that not all of it is the gospel truth, but the Sri Lanka video talks about the Hanso Foundation's research resulting in a 30% mortality rate of 2 villages.  My point is- they have access to real bodies.

There's also the Gary Troup (turbine man) connection.  He authored a book on the Valenzetti Equation that Alvar Hanso supposedly brought up all copies of.  He had written Bad Twin (which Sawyer found the manuscript of), which, although it was fiction (metafictional actually), implicated Widmore, Hanso, & Paik in unethical business/scientific ventures.  The person(s) responsible for the crash may have been trying to silence him.  TPTB have stated that Bad Twin IS a part of their intended Lost expanded universe.

A key piece of info that I'd like to have access to in this discussion is- WHO was on Jacob's list, & WHY?  We all know the connections...Jack & Claire, Des & Jack (with Sara's "miracle"), Locke & Sawyer (with Cooper), Hurley & Libby, Sayid & Kelvin, etc...  It seems as though some really were brought to the Island for a specific purpose.  While TPTB have confirmed that the plane did crash because Des failed to push the button, we have not been given an explanation why the plane was already 1,000 miles off course.  I KNOW I know I know the "magic box" is a metaphor, but is it possible that Ben "wished" for a spinal surgeon, & the universe delivered one?   

My opinion is that many multi-national private & government agencies with deep pockets & the proper motivation have come together to pull this off.  It seems that different groups have different reasons for staging the crash.  But @ the same time...I think they were all drawn to the Island by a greater cosmic force.  The classic Lostian themes of fate/coincidence, men of faith/men of science, money/economics/power, irony, & redemption are ALL in play.  IF there has to be ONE person behind it all....I do see Ben as a strong possibility.

I love this woman.  Thanks for this.  (((JESS))

She has her moments.

shes amazing and put my thoughts into words

[R3lient]

Good thinking... yea i bet he was just playing stupid w/ Miles.

[T Mack]

Couple of things here in this thread for clarification:

1.  The bodies in the plane were never recovered, they are still in the Sundra trench.
2.  No ID'ing of the bodies ever took place as result, therefore there is no way to prove/disprove. (Lapidus knows it's a ruse because of the wedding ring not on the finger of the pilot)
3. The flight recorder that was recovered was NOT recovered from the real flight 815 wreckage.  Geez Louise.  We saw the wreckage land on the island, the cockpit voice recorder and data recorder are sitting right there with the front section of the plane in the jungle.  The fake 815 is where the black box is from- the one that Captain Gault shows us.
4. The salvage operation was being performed in the Indian Ocean in the Sundra Trench near Bali, NOT near the island.  There is no salvage operation going on near the island, hence no wreckage was found near the island.  They have yet to explain how this is believable to the outside world (the plane was WAYY off course), similar to the fake bodies.
5. The freighter we see now has moved from near Fiji (Probably on it's way from Bali and the salvage operation) to now near the island.  Those people on the freighter have now been on that boat except for a brief stop in Fiji for some time now. The flight data recorder from the fake 815 was recovered and put on that boat and is now in the vicinity of Lost Island.
6. There is no wreckage near the island, it's near Bali, it was shown on the news clip!  The freighter is NOT on a salvage operation near the island, there is no wreckage near the island to find in the first place.  The freighter is there to find the island itself- and Ben Linus!

[blueeyed2200]

Wasn't it said that the freighter was just a few miles off of the coast??

[Lost Ed]

The Kahana is app 40 miles off the island.

The Christiane I is in the Indian Ocean discovering fake 815 wreckage.

Two ships, two missions, two different locations.

[opgelost]

There is no wreckage near the island

Do you know where the island is?