Author Topic: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey  (Read 17763 times)

Offline Lost_viewer

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2008, 12:59:59 PM »
Okay, theories on Smokey. I too 'felt' like Smokey made an appearance last night.

1. Ben IS Smokey. We have so far not seen him with smokey, right? So maybe Ben IS smokey.

2. Smokey is the sum total of all dead things on the island. It manifests as Christian, Yemi, and Harper (although we don't know that Harper is dead other than the fact that we have not seen her in any previous episodes yet - by the way, where is the sheriff woman?).

3. Ben controls Smokey, whatever smokey is. He made it manifest as Harper to do his bidding.

4. Or, for last night, Harper is still alive and really did make an appearance. There is the whole time travel/consciousness thing. Maybe there is some of that voodoo going on and that's how she disappeared. Or, she just ran really fast when Juliet and Jack were distracted.


1.?
2. The sheriff woman name is Isabel and according to the creators she died at the end of season 3, they mentioned it at the last ComicCon...Which why would they introduce her and kill her off mysteriously, maybe she was a victim of the writers' strike...You see Harper in "The tale of two Cities" 3x1...or maybe they just spliced her into the scene but I believe Ben is able to communicate with the Others just like he did in season 2 when he was in the capsule.
3. & 4. The whole whispering, Harper illusion really confuses me, b/c smokey always appears when there are whispers and sometimes he doesn't appear..But what if the Others could teleport from one different parts of the island like..maybe the Temple allows them to teleport to anywhere on the island, and maybe they tested it with the polar bear in Tunisia..

Offline goober

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2008, 02:00:55 PM »
IMHO It was smokie.

Smokie takes on the form of someone pulled from the mind of the individual it is trying to communicate with:

Christian --> Jack
Walt --> Shannon and Locke
Yemmi --> Eko

When Eko first encountered the smoke monster he saw visions of people he had known in the smoke (see screencap thread from previos seasons, I believe it was season 2).

In order to believe that it was actually Harper you would have to subscribe to the following:
1. While Ben is locked away he somehow knows that Charlotte and Daniel have left the beach
2. Ben also has to know somehow that they are going to the Tempest
3. Ben also has to know what they are going to do while at the Tempest
4. Ben has to communicate with Harper (who is presumably at the Temple with the rest of the Others)
5. Harper has to coincidentally run across Juliet as she is chasing after Charlotte and Daniel, shortly after leaving the beach (30 minutes or so) and not too long after Charlotte and Daniel had left. So Ben had to be able to see into the future and send Harper out a day or two BEFORE they left the beach to go to the Tempest (or at least hours before they actually left the beach).

Occam's razor "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best."

Hence, Harper = Smokie

Offline cbw420

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2008, 02:07:13 PM »
In order to believe that it was actually Harper you would have to subscribe to the following:
1. While Ben is locked away he somehow knows that Charlotte and Daniel have left the beach
2. Ben also has to know somehow that they are going to the Tempest
3. Ben also has to know what they are going to do while at the Tempest
4. Ben has to communicate with Harper (who is presumably at the Temple with the rest of the Others)
5. Harper has to coincidentally run across Juliet as she is chasing after Charlotte and Daniel, shortly after leaving the beach (30 minutes or so) and not too long after Charlotte and Daniel had left. So Ben had to be able to see into the future and send Harper out a day or two BEFORE they left the beach to go to the Tempest (or at least hours before they actually left the beach).



WALT / Freighter / Ben's Man / Charlotte has "work" to do


what i am getting at, is that ben's man on the boat could have communicated all this to ben

jedi mind tricks

Offline thebeann

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2008, 02:14:50 PM »
But if it WAS smokie...then is it really controlled by Ben? Or did it just know that Juliet would jump when Ben said "how high?"

Plus...Juliet, though surprised to see Harper, didn't seem SURPRISED to see her, as if she were dead. And if it IS smokey...why manifest as Harper? To appeal to some sense of guilt in Juliet? WHy not manifest as one of those people with whom Juliet said were tired of Ben? One of her allies, not the wife of her lover. Why not Alex or Karl or Richard?

I can't figure this one out. It's like the origins of the universe.

Offline fieldy32

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2008, 02:32:39 PM »
Now, I'm trying to recall... when has Smokey ever appeared during "whispers"? Now, please, don't jump in my crap if I'm wrong here, my brain isn't what it used to be, but I can only recall Smokey (and by Smokey, I mean the true from of Smokey, not these apparitions of other people that we're calling Smokey, this hasn't been confirmed) appearing to that strange mechanical sound, and to that sound only.  Now, like I said, my brain isn't what it used to be, so if the true Smoke monster has appeared during whispers, just let me know which episode it was and I'll happily retract my previous statement.  That is, of course, unless I watch the stated episode and don't find Smokey appearing to "whispers"... then I'm coming back with a vengeance!!!

Offline cbw420

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2008, 02:52:38 PM »
Now, I'm trying to recall... when has Smokey ever appeared during "whispers"? Now, please, don't jump in my crap if I'm wrong here, my brain isn't what it used to be, but I can only recall Smokey (and by Smokey, I mean the true from of Smokey, not these apparitions of other people that we're calling Smokey, this hasn't been confirmed) appearing to that strange mechanical sound, and to that sound only.  Now, like I said, my brain isn't what it used to be, so if the true Smoke monster has appeared during whispers, just let me know which episode it was and I'll happily retract my previous statement.  That is, of course, unless I watch the stated episode and don't find Smokey appearing to "whispers"... then I'm coming back with a vengeance!!!

you're correct, no whispers for ACTUAL smokie

love the avatar btw

Offline hefalumps

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #66 on: March 07, 2008, 03:06:24 PM »
I went back and looked at some of the first occurences of the whispers and this is what I found:

1) Rousseau mentions them to Sayid when she captures him - first real reference of there being Others. She also claimed voices told her to take Aaron from Claire - that they were coming for the child.
2) Sawyer hears them when he goes running off after the boar that he thinks is taunting him. He chases it into the jungle and loses its trail, and when he stops, he hears a bunch of whispering. And if I recall correctly, one of the whispers is audibly something to the effect of "It'll come back around"
3) Shannon of course hears the whispers before Walt appears. And then again she hears them and Ana Lucia and crew all hear them right before Shannon gets shot.
4) Charlie heard it - one of his many "hallucinations" in Season 2's Fire + Water when he kept trying to "save" Aaron
5) We hear the whispers just before the Others come and capture Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley (who Michael was delivering to them)

I'm sure I missed some, but those were a few occurences I could find of the whispering in the first two seasons. I haven't re-watched season three yet. Obviously it's not always linked to the mechanical sounds of Smokie/security system, although ih the epsiode where Eko died, the two did seem to be linked. But there's plenty of occurences (like these, Richard appearing to little Ben, Harper appearing to Juliet) where Smokie was not involved.

I definitely agree that the whispering is more related with the Others than it is the security system.

But I still don't know if it's a method of transportation, communication, or some supernatural way the island probes your conscience and tries to influence your actions or feelings.

Offline Asmodean

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2008, 03:09:54 PM »
Hasn't been updated in a long time but...
http://lostwhispering.blogspot.com/

Offline Lostfanchrim

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #68 on: March 07, 2008, 03:14:05 PM »
I went back and looked at some of the first occurences of the whispers and this is what I found:

1) Rousseau mentions them to Sayid when she captures him - first real reference of there being Others. She also claimed voices told her to take Aaron from Claire - that they were coming for the child.
2) Sawyer hears them when he goes running off after the boar that he thinks is taunting him. He chases it into the jungle and loses its trail, and when he stops, he hears a bunch of whispering. And if I recall correctly, one of the whispers is audibly something to the effect of "It'll come back around"
3) Shannon of course hears the whispers before Walt appears. And then again she hears them and Ana Lucia and crew all hear them right before Shannon gets shot.
4) Charlie heard it - one of his many "hallucinations" in Season 2's Fire + Water when he kept trying to "save" Aaron
5) We hear the whispers just before the Others come and capture Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley (who Michael was delivering to them)

I'm sure I missed some, but those were a few occurences I could find of the whispering in the first two seasons. I haven't re-watched season three yet. Obviously it's not always linked to the mechanical sounds of Smokie/security system, although ih the epsiode where Eko died, the two did seem to be linked. But there's plenty of occurences (like these, Richard appearing to little Ben, Harper appearing to Juliet) where Smokie was not involved.

I definitely agree that the whispering is more related with the Others than it is the security system.

But I still don't know if it's a method of transportation, communication, or some supernatural way the island probes your conscience and tries to influence your actions or feelings.

The whispers seem to come from out of nowhere just like the people who suddenly appear then disappear. Could the "others" be able to open some kind of "portal" where they can come and go and reveal themselves whenever they need to? Maybe the Losties can only hear the "others" speaking when this portal in opening and closing to allow one of their people to transport themselves to wherever they need to be then jump back to where they were previously? OK I am completely confusing myself here. If this sounds like nonsense, please forgive my overzealous need to make sense of the whispers.

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2008, 03:30:36 PM »
Couldn't that have just been Goodwin's wife?

I was really expecting to see her die off in the episode as the big reveal to indicate smokie. But yeah I really think it's just as simple as it being her.

Offline cbw420

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2008, 03:34:52 PM »
Couldn't that have just been Goodwin's wife?

I was really expecting to see her die off in the episode as the big reveal to indicate smokie. But yeah I really think it's just as simple as it being her.

most of the things we see are simple like this, but since we're all so neurotic about this damn show, we dive in head first and go way too far lol

Offline Lost-N-Detroit

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2008, 07:32:35 PM »
Ben doesn't have smokey on a leash and can call him to do whatever he wants Smokey to do.
Boulderdash I say!
Harper is Harper and not Smokey!
Yes I will agree that Smokey has turned into many images but he's not under Ben's control. I do beleive Ben when he told Locke for the umtenith time that he has no clue what Smokey is. If Ben knew or controlled Smokey he would send Smokey after the freighter crew and kill them instantly.

Offline hefalumps

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2008, 09:30:47 PM »
I'm rewatching the episode where Eko gets offed - there were no whispers in this episode. Lots of Eko hallucinating, but some of that may have been attributable to all his injuries. But Yemi just appeared to Eko - no whispers. And then he heard the mechanical noises of the smoke monster when he got his butt whooped.

What I do find interesting is that Yemi's body was gone from the plane when he started seeing visions of him all over the island. Just like Christian's body was no longer in his coffin when Jack was seeing visions of him.

I'm fairly certain the whispers are an entirely different phenomenon from Cerebrus/Smokie/the security system. They may have some kind of relation, but one does not necessarily imply the other.

I think Jacob controls Smokie and that the Others are associated with the whispers somehow. That's my theory at the moment.

So even if Harper wasn't really there, I don't think she was Smokie. I think she was something else. And I don't think Ben was controlling it.

Offline cbw420

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #73 on: March 07, 2008, 11:50:47 PM »
Ben doesn't have smokey on a leash and can call him to do whatever he wants Smokey to do.
Boulderdash I say!
Harper is Harper and not Smokey!
Yes I will agree that Smokey has turned into many images but he's not under Ben's control. I do beleive Ben when he told Locke for the umtenith time that he has no clue what Smokey is. If Ben knew or controlled Smokey he would send Smokey after the freighter crew and kill them instantly.


juliet also said to kate, "we dont know what it is" i think she was truthful there, but the key to that is the "we"

someone go back and check it, i'm certain of it

Offline LostAndSeek

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2008, 12:05:13 AM »
I thought it was Smokie manifesting at first, but if Smokie wanted Dan and Charlotte stopped it could just go whup 'em up against a tree somewhere and that'd be that.

Ergo either not Smokie or Dan & Charlotte just happen to be headed for a section of the Island where Smokie can't go.

If it's human Harper that we're seeing then she has help of some sort that lets her appear and disappear at will. Is she turning invisible? Time traveling? Teleporting? I dunno.

But if Ben had control over any of the above he wouldn't have lost nearly half his people by death or defection over the last few months. So no, Ben's not in control of any such power. He may have some way of communicating with the outside world though. That cell's in the basement of his own house, isn't it? Even if it's not, it's his home turf and he always has a plan.

Given the Others don't control Smokie or the other signs of power that we're seeing, there's got to be another group, doesn't there? Whether human or disembodied consciousnesses of some kind I've no idea, but there's some other semiorganized group.