Author Topic: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey  (Read 18172 times)

Offline Sunflower

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2008, 04:52:01 AM »
i posted this somewhere esle but my fingers hurt.



(ctrl+v)

I just feel like the island acts consciously, Smokey is how the island communicates with most people but only the select few can actally see the islands true soul (Jacob) probably not by his choice. locke can see, it ben can see it, hurley can see it. everyone else just interacts with smokey in his various forms.
LOL you posted that minutes ago in the poll :P  I'm glad you brought it up here tho because I didn't feel the poll was a place to discuss it.

It is my opinion that Hurley is the only one who can see it without manipulating it.  "Jacob" that is.  I don't think Ben or Locke possesses the natural ability.

Offline LouE68

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2008, 04:52:30 AM »
i posted this somewhere esle but my fingers hurt.



(ctrl+v)

I just feel like the island acts consciously, Smokey is how the island communicates with most people but only the select few can actally see the islands true soul (Jacob) probably not by his choice. locke can see, it ben can see it, hurley can see it. everyone else just interacts with smokey in his various forms.
so where has the interaction been with everyone running around? lol

Offline TheGoodPeople

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2008, 04:57:33 AM »
i posted this somewhere else but my fingers hurt.



(ctrl+v)

I just feel like the island acts consciously, Smokey is how the island communicates with most people but only the select few can actally see the islands true soul (Jacob) probably not by his choice. locke can see, it ben can see it, hurley can see it. everyone else just interacts with smokey in his various forms.
LOL you posted that minutes ago in the poll :P  I'm glad you brought it up here tho because I didn't feel the poll was a place to discuss it.

It is my opinion that Hurley is the only one who can see it without manipulating it.  "Jacob" that is.  I don't think Ben or Locke possesses the natural ability.



Right but if this forum didn't have "off topic tangents" where would it be. i felt that it was out of place there but, hey, its 2 AM.


it fits better here.


I think Hurley has probably the best relationship with Jacob out of those three. i.e. not trying to be a leader, thus trying to control people on the island. Hurley is humble. he doesn't want his lottery fortune, he doesn't want a leadership role, or power. Jacob smiles upon him.

As did god upon Jacob.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 05:09:55 AM by TheGoodPeople »

Offline smokey_is_king

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2008, 07:46:45 AM »
I also don't believe Smokey is tied to the whispers.  I think they're different things.

I think the whispers are somehow tied to the Others, and by that I mean the pre-Ben others (Richard Alpert and friends). Maybe going back to the ancient/historical secrets of the island, something along the timescale of the 4-toed statue.  Whispers just seem like an organic, in-your-head type of thing. Whatever they are, they seem tied to communicating, warning, deceiving, manipulating, etc.  The whispers also seem somehow associated (in my head) with Jacob. So when odd or unexpected folks materialize from out of your memories (particularly associated with memories of guilt and emotional pain), I get an in-your-head, whispery, magical box sort of vibe.

The smoke monster, on the other hand, has much more of a violent, mechanical aspect. I suppose it's likely both are somehow expressions of the same ruling will, but I don't think that's Ben's will.  Ben is a master manipulator and has harnessed many of the island's secrets and bent them to his own objectives, but I don't in any way believe he's calling all the shots. Perhaps Juliette, with her history of being manipulated especially harshly, was too quick to assume the message via Harper came from Ben.

I have to agree with norville on this one. Whatever Harper was (herself, smokey, or other) she made out Ben is telling her to kill C & D because she knows Juliet will listen due to her knowledge of how much Ben knows about the island. If Harper had said "Jacob wants you to..." then there's no reason why she would necessarily pursue the order. I don't think Ben has anything to do with the Harper meeting.

Offline HugeJohnLockeFan

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2008, 09:34:16 AM »
smokey must be controlled by ben somehow

thats why he never answers questions about it... remember when locke asked ben about it??

ben claimed he had no idea!! lies!!!

if that was TRULY goodwins wife then why havnt we seen her before and how did she appear out of no where and where is she living and/or hiding???

 ??? ??? ???

Offline thebeann

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2008, 09:46:53 AM »
Okay, theories on Smokey. I too 'felt' like Smokey made an appearance last night.

1. Ben IS Smokey. We have so far not seen him with smokey, right? So maybe Ben IS smokey.

2. Smokey is the sum total of all dead things on the island. It manifests as Christian, Yemi, and Harper (although we don't know that Harper is dead other than the fact that we have not seen her in any previous episodes yet - by the way, where is the sheriff woman?).

3. Ben controls Smokey, whatever smokey is. He made it manifest as Harper to do his bidding.

4. Or, for last night, Harper is still alive and really did make an appearance. There is the whole time travel/consciousness thing. Maybe there is some of that voodoo going on and that's how she disappeared. Or, she just ran really fast when Juliet and Jack were distracted.

Offline *MaZ*

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2008, 10:07:22 AM »
Harper would not need to be dead for Smokey manifest itself as her - again, Walt is not dead and Smokey showed up as Walt to Shannon just before she got shot. And Sahyd saw it, too.
As for why Ben would want to stop the Faraday from going to the station: b/c he knew Faraday would disable it. Ben wasn't trying to prevent a gassing that would kill everyone in the island - he wanted to keep control of the station, and use it again if he had to.
Now, that's not an option anymore.

Offline hefalumps

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2008, 11:36:35 AM »
Interesting stuff... but I still think Walt's "projections" aren't necessarily related to the other projections because Walt is "special" as they've alluded to so many times. In other words, while the visions of Christian, Yemi, and Harper may be created somehow by the island, I don't think Walt's are.

I also don't think you have to be dead, and you don't have to have died on the island, but I also don't think Harper is necessarily still alive. Remember, Kate saw the horse, and there's no way that horse died on the island.

I really hope we get to re-visit the Others at their Temple at some point this season. I'm hoping the Temple holds some of these answers about Smokey, the whispers, and the apparitions.

Offline Lost-N-Detroit

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2008, 11:51:54 AM »
Please stop with saying that Harper was Smokie. Harper is Harper and alive on the island. We see this from the opening crash where Ben Tells Ethan and Goodwin to go and get lists of survivors. She has been with the OTHERS out at Temple and the "voices" are also not smokie. The voices have always seemed to be good and not harmful like smokie. The only tie in to the voices would be the rain since it seems to happen only then. Many of our Losties have heard the "voices" and are not dead.
Ben I am sure either has had a plan set in motion for some time now and it's finally working its way through phases. Ben I do think has no clue what smokie is.

Offline Lostfanchrim

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2008, 12:04:22 PM »
I posted this in another thread, but it isn't it more reasonable that the island is manfiesting people's consciences as people that made a big impact in their lives (or whose lives they impacted)? That's why Jack is seeing his father feeling guilty about his death, Kate sees the horse that allowed her to escape, Eko sees his brother feeling guilty about his death. Juliet sees this woman who she wronged greatly telling her what she knows in her conscience - that Ben gave her orders, Ben saved her sister's life, and ultimately she should follow those orders.

I know we've seen these types of manifestations occasionally coinciding with Smokie, and while they might be related, I don't think they're the same. And I don't think Ben is controlling the manifestations or Smokie. As the poster above suggested, I think one or both might be related to Jacob, and Ben may have some influence over Jacob, but not control.

That's my take on it.

I like this approach, that like Daniel's explanation of Des's time jumps, it's about the projection of consciousness.  Was Walt really at the pit, telling John to get up? Was that Smokie? Or was it Walt using his abilities to project a message via his future self (somehow)?

Juliet in Not In Portland reveals her dedication to her sister. In The Other Woman, we see her in an opposite vein as an adulterer.  Such a discrepancy would be a perfect way in to manipulate Juliet.  Like Walt, perhaps Harper, too, can project herself to appear & converse with others.  Maybe the temple is where the Others can accomplish this.

I like the astral projection theory. How else could Harper appear to Juliet? How could harper know the exact spot where Juliet would be standing in the jungle unless she was tailing her for a while? How could harper communicate with Ben if Ben is locked up? Harper DID appear as if she were really there, though. She was wet from the rain just as Jack and juliet were. Jack also saw and heard her and then she was gone.  If she were really physically there and not just a projection, how did she disappear so fast and so silently? However, if she were just a projection or a halluciantion why was she dripping wet from the rain and how did Jack see and hear her like Sayid did with Shannon and Walt? Maybe smokey really isn't a smoke monster but a manifestation of whatever Ben wants it to be or Jacob or whover controls it. That begs the question, how did it beat Eko to death? Is it a manifestation with physical properties? How is that possible?

Offline cbw420

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2008, 12:13:18 PM »
ok a few things, i started another thread on the whispers, juggy merge if you see fit

but how in the hell does anyone think that Harper was/is Smokie or Smokie was/is harper???

there is no justification for this

i mentioned in this other thread that the whispers may be a transportation device of some sort, but thats far-fetched as well, i think last night clearly showed us that the whispers and people appearing/disappearing are in fact connected somehow

how is the question though, spirits?? perhaps but i don't know

please forgive me though, as i HAVE to rewatch tonight, the damn dog would not shut up last night lol

Offline SQUIRT199

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2008, 12:39:59 PM »
Couldn't that have just been Goodwin's wife?
Rain and whispers, mysterious vanishing.... All signs of Smokey.

I dont remeber whispers when smokey appears, just alot of clicking noises and trees bustling, I didnt hear any of that on last nights epi.

Offline thebeann

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2008, 12:40:52 PM »
Please stop with saying that Harper was Smokie. Harper is Harper and alive on the island. We see this from the opening crash where Ben Tells Ethan and Goodwin to go and get lists of survivors. She has been with the OTHERS out at Temple and the "voices" are also not smokie. The voices have always seemed to be good and not harmful like smokie. The only tie in to the voices would be the rain since it seems to happen only then. Many of our Losties have heard the "voices" and are not dead.
Ben I am sure either has had a plan set in motion for some time now and it's finally working its way through phases. Ben I do think has no clue what smokie is.

Stop bringing reason and common sense into the threads. We will have none of that.  :)

Offline Walkabout

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2008, 12:46:36 PM »
If Ben controls "smokie" then why the sonic fence? Maybe the voices are from those who need to be "unstuck" between past and future mind travel?

Offline Asmodean

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2008, 12:52:20 PM »
Harper's sudden appearance reminded me of Richard suddenly appearing to young Ben.  Nothing except whispers, then BAM!
I think maybe she had another Other in the woods to make a noise for distraction for a quick exit.

I don't buy into the Ben/Smokey connection.  He'd never have to leave his house to get things done.