Author Topic: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey  (Read 17271 times)

Blackrock Bob

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2008, 11:56:56 PM »
Thats YOUR and a few others theories, dont say general theory as if everyone believes that...cuz we dont know at this point....
Are you saying that Smokey didn't appear as Christian, Yemmi, the horse, etc? I thought that was a generally accepted  theory too.
generally accepted by who? yes there are "some" people that think that, I dont for one...and others dont...but to say general as if its the consenus of everyone...thats all I'm saying...;D
I would really like to see you write up your theory then. I don't see how Christian has been waltzing around the island unless he is alive or he was smokey taking his form.

Offline versed4every1

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2008, 11:57:46 PM »
I am not sure that smokie was masquerading as Harper simply because of the whispers we heard or the fact that she disappeared like a puff of smoke.  Cindy disappeared from the rest of the tail section group the same way - there one second, gone the next.  I do believe that smokie has the ability to be seen in other forms, but I am not convinced that it was him this time.

Offline E.S.B.

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2008, 11:59:36 PM »
Versed, I agree with you 100%.  I don't think the whispers imply that Smokey is manifesting as someone.  Yes, the whispers occur when weird stuff happens.  But the one that comes to mind is when young Ben sees Richard for the first time in "The Man Behind the Curtain."  I don't think that was Smokey.  But it was a "weird" thing since Richard appeared out of nowhere and he did not look any younger than he does now.

This is not to say that Smokey does not appear to people as Christian, Yemi, etc.

Offline joeboo

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2008, 12:04:11 AM »
I really seemed like an actual person.  It wasn't just one person seeing someone they knew that was dead, both Juliet and Jack saw Harper.
And remember how stealthy the Others were in the first seasons.

Offline LouE68

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2008, 12:05:27 AM »
Thats YOUR and a few others theories, dont say general theory as if everyone believes that...cuz we dont know at this point....
Are you saying that Smokey didn't appear as Christian, Yemmi, the horse, etc? I thought that was a generally accepted  theory too.
generally accepted by who? yes there are "some" people that think that, I dont for one...and others dont...but to say general as if its the consenus of everyone...thats all I'm saying...;D
I would really like to see you write up your theory then. I don't see how Christian has been waltzing around the island unless he is alive or he was smokey taking his form.
You'd have to go back to so many posts from so may seasons past lol...MY theory is its not smokey, but what ever makes smokey, smokey, has something to do with the visions of Christian or Yemi...so yes you can say its caused by the same thing, but they arent the same thing...if that makes sense....one isnt a cause of the other...smokey doesnt change into them and vice versa, but what causes them to be(teleke-whogifuzz station?) creates them...

sorry ot get off topic...its so hard to stay focused without going back...

Harper is stealthy like ninja...or is that a pirate...

Offline *MaZ*

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2008, 12:21:28 AM »
I really seemed like an actual person.  It wasn't just one person seeing someone they knew that was dead, both Juliet and Jack saw Harper.
And remember how stealthy the Others were in the first seasons.
Yes, but remember that when Shannon saw Walt just before she got shot (while he was away in the raft), Sahyid saw him too. And Walt was FOR SURE not on the island.

Offline jugdish

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2008, 12:30:06 AM »
I agree with Versed. We have heard whispers often and not seen smokie at that time. Whispers does not mean Smokie.

I think we are missing the biggest point of that scene. It is that she appeared with the whispers. She is the therapist and has Juliets secrets. could she be the one who is behind the whispers??

Offline Maxor127

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2008, 12:31:47 AM »
I agree that the scene was odd and something seemed off about her, and that she seemed ghostish to me, but it's too big of a leap for me to say that it was Smokey or that Ben is controlling Smokey and all apparitions are created by Ben.

Offline norville

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2008, 02:42:03 AM »
I also don't believe Smokey is tied to the whispers.  I think they're different things.

I think the whispers are somehow tied to the Others, and by that I mean the pre-Ben others (Richard Alpert and friends). Maybe going back to the ancient/historical secrets of the island, something along the timescale of the 4-toed statue.  Whispers just seem like an organic, in-your-head type of thing. Whatever they are, they seem tied to communicating, warning, deceiving, manipulating, etc.  The whispers also seem somehow associated (in my head) with Jacob. So when odd or unexpected folks materialize from out of your memories (particularly associated with memories of guilt and emotional pain), I get an in-your-head, whispery, magical box sort of vibe.

The smoke monster, on the other hand, has much more of a violent, mechanical aspect. I suppose it's likely both are somehow expressions of the same ruling will, but I don't think that's Ben's will.  Ben is a master manipulator and has harnessed many of the island's secrets and bent them to his own objectives, but I don't in any way believe he's calling all the shots. Perhaps Juliette, with her history of being manipulated especially harshly, was too quick to assume the message via Harper came from Ben.

Offline jumbotron

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2008, 02:50:16 AM »
Even if Smokie was manifesting himself as Harper WHY would he tell Juliette to stop Dan and Charlotte?  If she had stopped them the gas would have been released and everyone would have died losties and others leaving the island free for the taking. 

Who/whatever controls smokie would have been handing over control to Widmore.


Offline TheGoodPeople

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2008, 03:02:27 AM »
I dont think ben can control smokey. i think its jacobs doing.

Offline hefalumps

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2008, 03:07:26 AM »
I posted this in another thread, but it isn't it more reasonable that the island is manfiesting people's consciences as people that made a big impact in their lives (or whose lives they impacted)? That's why Jack is seeing his father feeling guilty about his death, Kate sees the horse that allowed her to escape, Eko sees his brother feeling guilty about his death. Juliet sees this woman who she wronged greatly telling her what she knows in her conscience - that Ben gave her orders, Ben saved her sister's life, and ultimately she should follow those orders.

I know we've seen these types of manifestations occasionally coinciding with Smokie, and while they might be related, I don't think they're the same. And I don't think Ben is controlling the manifestations or Smokie. As the poster above suggested, I think one or both might be related to Jacob, and Ben may have some influence over Jacob, but not control.

That's my take on it.

Offline Lion of Atreides

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2008, 03:56:37 AM »
I posted this in another thread, but it isn't it more reasonable that the island is manfiesting people's consciences as people that made a big impact in their lives (or whose lives they impacted)? That's why Jack is seeing his father feeling guilty about his death, Kate sees the horse that allowed her to escape, Eko sees his brother feeling guilty about his death. Juliet sees this woman who she wronged greatly telling her what she knows in her conscience - that Ben gave her orders, Ben saved her sister's life, and ultimately she should follow those orders.

I know we've seen these types of manifestations occasionally coinciding with Smokie, and while they might be related, I don't think they're the same. And I don't think Ben is controlling the manifestations or Smokie. As the poster above suggested, I think one or both might be related to Jacob, and Ben may have some influence over Jacob, but not control.

That's my take on it.

I like this approach, that like Daniel's explanation of Des's time jumps, it's about the projection of consciousness.  Was Walt really at the pit, telling John to get up? Was that Smokie? Or was it Walt using his abilities to project a message via his future self (somehow)?

Juliet in Not In Portland reveals her dedication to her sister. In The Other Woman, we see her in an opposite vein as an adulterer.  Such a discrepancy would be a perfect way in to manipulate Juliet.  Like Walt, perhaps Harper, too, can project herself to appear & converse with others.  Maybe the temple is where the Others can accomplish this.

Offline Sunflower

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2008, 04:14:03 AM »
What a great thread!!  The highlight of discussion from this episode.  My neice and I watch Lost together...she's an adult btw..the minute it started to rain I said "And heeeeeerrrreeee's Smokey!".  Which was very ammusing given the whispers.  If that were true, for me, Harper would have to be dead.  I don't have a fancy theory about Smokey, just that he, or she ::) :P , appears as dead people and is controlled by someone. 

I said that, after seeing Harper, Ben controls Smokey.  Smokey is a security system, Ben's security system.  Or at least that is what makes sense to me at this moment.  Ben is EXACTLY where he wants to be.  He knew that with his info on the man on the boat that Locke would let him go.  Ben is a professional, an expert...he, unlike Locke, knows exactly what he is doing and how to execute it.  I agree that Smokey thrives on ppls guilt, remorse and any bad feeling.  That is how it manipualates people...like Ben.  I do not think Jacob and Smokey are related..AT ALL.  That is my big statement I guess...everything else is guesswork.

Offline TheGoodPeople

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Re: So Mister Benjamin Linus..... and his buddy Smokey
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2008, 04:43:52 AM »
i posted this somewhere esle but my fingers hurt.



(ctrl+v)

I just feel like the island acts consciously, Smokey is how the island communicates with most people but only the select few can actally see the islands true soul (Jacob) probably not by his choice. locke can see, it ben can see it, hurley can see it. everyone else just interacts with smokey in his various forms.