8 survived crash, but 2 died

[hyperform]

im just glad there arent any steeler avatars on here, as a bengals fan i would be constantly fighting with them too.

[madmax22e]

i agree. and as i said before, the first time they implied it with desmond i cringed. i HATE time travel in shows. it seems like a cop out. i was just bringing it up to spark debate

[Point Place WI]

Yawn! 

another (fudge) Packers fan. that is pretty much all you guys can come up with, huh?

I wouldn't expect anything less from a classic Chicago hotdog. 

[madmax22e]

lol

i hear brett favre is becoming a homosexual and leaving football. oh wait, i heard that in 1991

[Austruck]

im just glad there arent any steeler avatars on here, as a bengals fan i would be constantly fighting with them too.

HEY! Steeler fan here, buddy!

[hyperform]

well at least you arent flaunting it

[Blackrock Bob]

There is no time travel. We have been told this time after time after time after time by the writers and producers. Desmond's conscience traveled but he did not. There is no time travel.

While this was my long held belief, I am afraid that Damon and Carleton love to stretch things. If it takes the helicopter a half a day longer to get to the boat than it did inside the helipcopter, was that time travel? Or just a time distortion?

Time is relative.

[casino]

Bunny 15 surely time traveled somewhere.

This is a good point.  So far we have seen no physical time travel, but there sure as heck was a duplicate bunny.

And before you burst a blood vessel, Juggy, TBTB have said that they would lie to us if it was necessary to protect an important story line.

I know....you feel used, perhaps even cheap...but I'm not sure you can totally trust these guys.

[casino]

jugdish, i live in chicago and the simple fact u have brett favre in ur avatar prevents me from ever backing down from you

And Juggy, I am a Carolina Panthers fan, so say whatever you want to me.  I am used to being humiliated.

[Walkabout]

jugdish, i live in chicago and the simple fact u have brett favre in ur avatar prevents me from ever backing down from you

And Juggy, I am a Carolina Panthers fan, so say whatever you want to me.  I am used to being humiliated.

Hey Casino I got you beat by a south beach mile. I am a Miami Lphins fans. Notice the lack of D and O? That's what gets us 1-15. Least you got Steve Smith.

8 survive, 6 live(for now) Dez and #15 travel time and we have been lied to by TPTB. Sounds par for this course we call life.

[casino]

Time for Casino to make a stand, and here it is:

When we talk about time travel, I think it's best to split it into Mental and Physical.

Based on what I have seen ON THE ACTUAL SHOW:

(1) Based on Desmond's consciousness travelling from 1996 to 2004 and the process being plainly explained by Faraday, there is mental time travel on the show.  You can use the "mental vs physical" distinction to try to avoid it, but that's time travel, baby.

(2)  Until someone explains what happened in the Orchid video to me in some other fashion, the appearance of the duplicate bunny makes it plain to me that there is physical time travel.  Bunny appears, Bunny 15 Version 1 has to be kept away from Bunny 15 Version 2.....that smacks so much of the tried and true "future self must not meet past self or bad things happen" theory of time travel that I have to believe that's what we are seeing.

(3) I don't care how you classify the time distortion experienced by people coming to and from the Island.  Does a difference in the perception of time between two groups of people constitute time travel?  I don't feel that it does, but that's just my opinion and I don't really care either way.  What I will say is that in making the argument for time travel, I would use points (1) and (2) before resorting to (3).

Bottom Line:  At this point in time,  based only on what I have seen on the show itself and not spoilers/rumours/writer's comments (because I believe they are generally truthful but will lie when necessary to protect the story line), I am ready to declare that I believe there is time travel of both mental and physical nature on the show.

  

[Jugdish]

I just can not go that far. Yes the Orchid video (which has not been shown on the show yet so is outside what you said you would consider) appears to show some kind of time physical time travel. But it showed it being experimented on. No knowledge if the experiments were ever mastered. SO I say mental for sure, physical, no until proven wrong.

[casino]

I just can not go that far. Yes the Orchid video (which has not been shown on the show yet so is outside what you said you would consider) appears to show some kind of time physical time travel. But it showed it being experimented on. No knowledge if the experiments were ever mastered. SO I say mental for sure, physical, no until proven wrong.

My bad about the Orchid video.  I can't remember where I saw it so I thought it was on the show.  But, even if it wasn't it's been confirmed to be relevant, so I stick with my assessment.

Sir, I believe we must agree to disagree.

[Creflo]

this post died in transit...pardon if doubled.



There is absolutely no reason why the subject of time travel in the show should NOT be discussed in this thread.

When TPTB try to lawyer their way out of being cornered into certain typical time travel paradigms that are old and tired (namely Back to the Future et al), they do so through carefully chosen words and carefully designed storytelling.  Good for them.  It's fascinating to watch and discuss.

To say "this show is not presenting the same old time travel crap that we're used to from other shows" is certainly doable.  There's no time machine.  There's no duplicates (we'll see what the deal with The Orchid rabbit is later hopefully).  There's no Kyle Reese going back in time and impregnating Sarah Connor with the son who's going to be the one who sends Kyle back from the future.  This type of stuff is rife with paradox.

Now, picture this: today while you're doing your daily exercises, you black out and appear on a helicopter with people you don't know but who claim they're your friends.  You look in the mirror and your beard is longer as are the lines on your face.  After some confusion, you black out again and reappear back where you were and an unknown number of minutes have passed.  Rinse and repeat.  TECHNICALLY, this is not time travel of the form that we are accustomed to reading or watching, other than some sappy books by Richard Bach.  That's why I prefer to refer to it as "mindtripping" instead of time travel.  You can't bring anything with you on a mindtrip except your memories.  You can't even write a phone number on your hand.

It still COULD introduce paradox if the writers weren't careful, but they are.

Folks who want to argue that there's no time travel on this show are pretty much right.  Folks who claim time travel explains everything are often wrong.  I have made a number of statements about the implications of Desmond's time traveling and I hope to see that these prove out.

The debate about time travel at this point is really just one of semantics.

[casino]

this post died in transit...pardon if doubled.



There is absolutely no reason why the subject of time travel in the show should NOT be discussed in this thread.

When TPTB try to lawyer their way out of being cornered into certain typical time travel paradigms that are old and tired (namely Back to the Future et al), they do so through carefully chosen words and carefully designed storytelling.  Good for them.  It's fascinating to watch and discuss.

To say "this show is not presenting the same old time travel crap that we're used to from other shows" is certainly doable.  There's no time machine.  There's no duplicates (we'll see what the deal with The Orchid rabbit is later hopefully).  There's no Kyle Reese going back in time and impregnating Sarah Connor with the son who's going to be the one who sends Kyle back from the future.  This type of stuff is rife with paradox.



Now, picture this: today while you're doing your daily exercises, you black out and appear on a helicopter with people you don't know but who claim they're your friends.  You look in the mirror and your beard is longer as are the lines on your face.  After some confusion, you black out again and reappear back where you were and an unknown number of minutes have passed.  Rinse and repeat.  TECHNICALLY, this is not time travel of the form that we are accustomed to reading or watching, other than some sappy books by Richard Bach.  That's why I prefer to refer to it as "mindtripping" instead of time travel.  You can't bring anything with you on a mindtrip except your memories.  You can't even write a phone number on your hand.

It still COULD introduce paradox if the writers weren't careful, but they are.

Folks who want to argue that there's no time travel on this show are pretty much right.  Folks who claim time travel explains everything are often wrong.  I have made a number of statements about the implications of Desmond's time traveling and I hope to see that these prove out.

The debate about time travel at this point is really just one of semantics.

Maybe I'm missing something:

"There's no duplicates?"

Unless we are leaving out the Orchid video because it has not been on the show yet (again, my bad) there are most definitely duplicates.

"Folks who want to argue that there's no time travel on the show are pretty much right?"

Yeah, if you've decided that you don't think there is time travel on the show and so you restrict your definition to physical time time travel and ignore the implications of the Orchid video.  If not, then No, those folks are not right.

"Folks who claim time travel explains everything are often wrong."

Ah, now here I agree with you totally.  There have been several cases where people have explained things on the show away with time travel where it's not true.  And, I also think that time travel will not be a large part of the final explanation of what's going on with The Island.

We've gone over this a lot, Creflo, and I like the stuff you have to say on the subject and agree with you on a lot of things, so take this the right way:  Calling what's happening on the show "mindtripping" will allow you to add another phrase to your list of Coined Terms, but it's just another way of trying to deny that there is time travel on the show.

What needs to happen to shake you guys out of this state of denial?  The next time Hurley busts through the trees onto the beach, do the writers need to have him driving a DeLorean with Arnold Schwarzenneger's head poking out the sunroof?

Let it go, man.  Come over to my side.  The sky is so blue over here!