Fastest Missile ever!

[Cowboy Up]

I have to watch the episode again, unless someone else knows for sure...did she say it was down, do we know she saw it go down, like on a radar...or is she just estimating it went down from her shooting blindly to an area, the equipment Daniel had...once again we have too many variables to be sure....

[WhatThe]

Einstein thought deeply about the idea of simultaneity.  From Regina's perspective, the rocket hit in twenty five seconds or whatever and from Dan's....31 minutes....and from the rockets.....31 minutes. 

What is contrary to relativity in this discussion is the fact that from Dan's perspective, his watch should have read 25 seconds or whatever, but from the stationary observer, it took 31 minutes.

However, if we assume that Dan the one moving and we switch our thoughts to "when will Dan reach the missile?"  then we get closer to the time paradox.  But, here, Dan would have recorded 25 seconds or whatever and the missile's clock 31 minutes.  That did not occur, plus you have the fact that the radiowaves (also effected by relativity) were unchanged.  If you communicate with objects far away, you have pauses in the discussion as the signal goes back and forth (voyager).  If you communicate with objects travelling very quickly (light speeds), then you have to adjust your receiving frequency higher (converging) or lower (diverging) due to doppler influences.

Thank you.  Footballmom's husband signing off.

He is such a show off.

Please don't tell me we have to understand all this in order to understand the show lol...

[WhatThe]

I have to watch the episode again, unless someone else knows for sure...did she say it was down, do we know she saw it go down, like on a radar...or is she just estimating it went down from her shooting blindly to an area, the equipment Daniel had...once again we have too many variables to be sure....

Yeah, I was wondering something similar.

- Did Regina say the missile landed at its target because she was following it from radar?
- Was Daniel indeed synchronizing the missile clock with the island clock, or was he doing something else?
- Exactly how much time passed between when Regina said the missile landed, and when it finally did land?
- Is the 31 minute difference between the two clocks meant to indicate how long it took the missile to land, or something else?

[Lion of Atreides]

I have to watch the episode again, unless someone else knows for sure...did she say it was down, do we know she saw it go down, like on a radar...or is she just estimating it went down from her shooting blindly to an area, the equipment Daniel had...once again we have too many variables to be sure....

Yeah, I was wondering something similar.

- Did Regina say the missile landed at its target because she was following it from radar?
Most likely.

- Was Daniel indeed synchronizing the missile clock with the island clock, or was he doing something else?
Synchronizing. What else could he have been doing? Downloading images of Evangeline Lilly from his home computer 'cause he noticed Kate looked just like her?

- Exactly how much time passed between when Regina said the missile landed, and when it finally did land?
31 minutes - 28 seconds = ~ 30.5 minutes.  From Dan's perspective.

- Is the 31 minute difference between the two clocks meant to indicate how long it took the missile to land, or something else?
The time discrepancy of this object as it either traversed the length of space-time bubble encompassing the island, or the effect of crossing whatever barrier exists between the island & the outside world.

For more kicks, try this:

http://www.newtonphysics.on.ca/EINSTEIN/Chapter9.html

Then you can understand the show!

[KRLJ]

I have to watch the episode again, unless someone else knows for sure...did she say it was down, do we know she saw it go down, like on a radar...or is she just estimating it went down from her shooting blindly to an area, the equipment Daniel had...once again we have too many variables to be sure....

Yeah, I was wondering something similar.

- Did Regina say the missile landed at its target because she was following it from radar?
- Was Daniel indeed synchronizing the missile clock with the island clock, or was he doing something else?
- Exactly how much time passed between when Regina said the missile landed, and when it finally did land?
- Is the 31 minute difference between the two clocks meant to indicate how long it took the missile to land, or something else?

I have the show on my computer... the exact lines are...

D - Are you locked in?
R - Getting your signal pretty clear.
D - Ok, fire the payload.
R - Payload away.
...
...
R- 5 kilometers to beacon... zero.

Neither of them mention anything about radars - so we have no way to know how she was tracking it...

[Cowboy Up]

I have to watch the episode again, unless someone else knows for sure...did she say it was down, do we know she saw it go down, like on a radar...or is she just estimating it went down from her shooting blindly to an area, the equipment Daniel had...once again we have too many variables to be sure....

Yeah, I was wondering something similar.

- Did Regina say the missile landed at its target because she was following it from radar?
- Was Daniel indeed synchronizing the missile clock with the island clock, or was he doing something else?
- Exactly how much time passed between when Regina said the missile landed, and when it finally did land?
- Is the 31 minute difference between the two clocks meant to indicate how long it took the missile to land, or something else?

I have the show on my computer... the exact lines are...

D - Are you locked in?
R - Getting your signal pretty clear.
D - Ok, fire the payload.
R - Payload away.
...
...
R- 5 kilometers to beacon... zero.

Neither of them mention anything about radars - so we have no way to know how she was tracking it...

Thanks thats what I thought...although we can presume it may be a radar tracking, we just don't know...plus, the discrepancy with the real time radio talk and the payload, adding radar tracking onto the island would be another strange oddity...

[KRLJ]

Thanks thats what I thought...although we can presume it may be a radar tracking, we just don't know...plus, the discrepancy with the real time radio talk and the payload, adding radar tracking onto the island would be another strange oddity...
[/quote]


That's the part I'm still trying to wrap my head around... 

[Cowboy Up]

yeah, thats a mind boggler....

[Lion of Atreides]

How about this?

http://www.ups.com/WebTracking/track?loc=en_US&WT.svl=SubNav

Seriously, radar tracking is a fairly certain assumption, given that those spinny radar contraptions are standard on fishing boats, research vessels, the Love Boat, etc.  The Christiane I had a large array of antennas, etc., which surely includes radar:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Christiane1-find815.JPG

Alternatively, Regina might have been using GPS to track the missile, just like a Tomahawk missile.  However, the 'locking in' part suggests they were referring to a direct two-way link between Daniel's location and the ship, without having to factor in a 3rd reference point (i.e. a satellite hurtling through space) to complicate the experiment's calculations.

[Writers_Strike]

I too am in the Navy, I am a fire controllman and work with the MK 86 Gun fire control system. It fires the 5" projectile that weighs about 70 lbs.
This is how our gun system works;
Target tracked by radar, beacon or grid co-ordinants.
computer computes gun angle and elevation for distance, and knows time of flight.
Gun fires and counts down time of flight, 5 second to impact will light up an impact light so we know when it hits. Its very difficult to track a small projectile with our radar that spins at 60 RPM.

I still believe the boat is about 8 miles off shore now.
I believe that miles had a beacon.
I beleive it was not tracked but rather counted down distances from time of flight.
During the recap episode they made sure to show hurley and sayid with radio and hurley saying it was from a differant time.
And the Frequancy thereoy is the best discription for the real time talking. The rockets time of flight never exceeded 28 seconds, rather the boat fired it 31 minutes later. It all works out if the Frequency time travel talking is true.

[Lion of Atreides]

From the looks of the rocket as it hits the ground, I'd guess it's 2-3 feet long.  Is this something that's big enough to be tracked by radar?  Especially since this rocket isn't rolling like projectile ordinance.

I just happened to read an interesting account of how the Soviets obtained the sidewinder missile technology.  Besides the Swedish spy who passed along the specs, a sidewinder, fired by a Taiwanese jet at a Chinese jet in the late 50s during the skirmishes over the Taiwanese Strait, failed to explode, remaining lodged in the plane.  From that one missile, Soviet engineers were able to copy the missile down to the smallest detail.

[Writers_Strike]

From the looks of the rocket as it hits the ground, I'd guess it's 2-3 feet long.  Is this something that's big enough to be tracked by radar?  Especially since this rocket isn't rolling like projectile ordinance.

Our Radar was a surface search fire control radar. Able to track while scan, state of the art 30 years ago. If they have a radar that was countinous wave and fixed beam then yes they would have the resolution to track it all the way in.

[Fallybear]

Einstein thought deeply about the idea of simultaneity.  From Regina's perspective, the rocket hit in twenty five seconds or whatever and from Dan's....31 minutes....and from the rockets.....31 minutes. 

What is contrary to relativity in this discussion is the fact that from Dan's perspective, his watch should have read 25 seconds or whatever, but from the stationary observer, it took 31 minutes.

However, if we assume that Dan the one moving and we switch our thoughts to "when will Dan reach the missile?"  then we get closer to the time paradox.  But, here, Dan would have recorded 25 seconds or whatever and the missile's clock 31 minutes.  That did not occur, plus you have the fact that the radiowaves (also effected by relativity) were unchanged.  If you communicate with objects far away, you have pauses in the discussion as the signal goes back and forth (voyager).  If you communicate with objects travelling very quickly (light speeds), then you have to adjust your receiving frequency higher (converging) or lower (diverging) due to doppler influences.

Thank you.  Footballmom's husband signing off.

He is such a show off.

Don't take this the wrong way mom, but your husband should be making more posts.Tell him to put down the mop and get on the keyboard.  He's pretty good!

[Lion of Atreides]

Our Radar was a surface search fire control radar. Able to track while scan, state of the art 30 years ago. If they have a radar that was countinous wave and fixed beam then yes they would have the resolution to track it all the way in.

Which they likely would, given that the organization behind the search for the island, and its operative in the field, would likely hire out the best equipped vessel available for this mission, given the benefits of finding the island. 

Don't take this the wrong way mom, but your husband should be making more posts.Tell him to put down the mop and get on the keyboard.  He's pretty good!

Yeah. Have him design a 3D mockup of Einstein's simultaneity thought-experiment to help us masses thoroughly understand it.  We need a tutorial on higher-order mathematics, too, it seems.

[footballmom10]

Our Radar was a surface search fire control radar. Able to track while scan, state of the art 30 years ago. If they have a radar that was countinous wave and fixed beam then yes they would have the resolution to track it all the way in.

Which they likely would, given that the organization behind the search for the island, and its operative in the field, would likely hire out the best equipped vessel available for this mission, given the benefits of finding the island. 

Don't take this the wrong way mom, but your husband should be making more posts.Tell him to put down the mop and get on the keyboard.  He's pretty good!

Yeah. Have him design a 3D mockup of Einstein's simultaneity thought-experiment to help us masses thoroughly understand it.  We need a tutorial on higher-order mathematics, too, it seems.

Let's try another conception.  Imagine that miles is talking to the boat by radio.  The signal is travelling everywhere, every vector.  Now, one of those vectors is the course that allowed the helicopter through.  So, Miles can talk to Regina real time but the missile, that is not going through the hole in the time bending barrier, is not. 

The missile was not tracked by radar as radar emissions would be effected by this barrier and would be warped at the time the missile entered it.  Thus, Regina would have lost it on radar and said so.  If you say that a phased array would be free of this problem, then you have to contend with the array receiving frequencies back that are distorted by the barrier both in time and frequency and the whole screen would be jibbirish.

Relativity would be an issue as whatever is bending time would also bend the timing of the radar emissions.  Light is the basis of relativity.

The simplest answer is usually the best (yakim) and here Regina may simply have known how far away was the island and that's what she's reporting.  The missile had a defined burn time, ballistics, and therefore is time to landing was anticipated not tracked.