Author Topic: Missile a time warp?  (Read 15752 times)

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

  • DHARMA Work Man (or Woman)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3486
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2008, 12:13:52 AM »
Another excellent point.  So island time is the same as real world time.  Like, if i look at my clock at it says 10:10, sayid will look at his watch and it will say 10:10.  its just the "wrinkle" between the island and me that is off?

Offline matahari

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 756
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2008, 12:22:08 AM »
either there was a time warp, or possibly the magnetic disturbances messed with the clock.

dan was very specific to frank that he should follow the exact heading, maybe that heading leads to a window where one can avoid these types of disturbances.?

Heading remains the same just as coordinates do except when the general mass of Earth expands with time creating a chronological delay due to the enlargement of space and time.

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

  • DHARMA Work Man (or Woman)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3486
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2008, 12:24:31 AM »
but does that mean that the island is constantly fluctuating size...?  sorry, i'm a bit dense.

Offline matahari

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 756
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2008, 12:31:10 AM »
but does that mean that the island is constantly fluctuating size...?  sorry, i'm a bit dense.
The universe is constantly. Thus the island would also be increasing in space, time, and mass. The headings must remain the same as they are proportionate to the rest of the world, however, on the island they are unaware of this causality.

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

  • DHARMA Work Man (or Woman)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3486
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2008, 12:36:03 AM »
so the universe is constantly...but are you saying that the island doesn't..erm...expand at the same rate as the earth? :(

Offline on the island

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 254
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2008, 12:39:20 AM »
Another excellent point.  So island time is the same as real world time.  Like, if i look at my clock at it says 10:10, sayid will look at his watch and it will say 10:10.  its just the "wrinkle" between the island and me that is off?
I think that sound correct.  It's is almost like there is a "maze" between the island and the outside world.  Time moves the same on either side, but you can't just take a direct route from one to the other.  Apparently Ben may know the trap door to the "maze".  Best analogy I can come up with.

Offline matahari

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 756
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2008, 12:51:08 AM »
so the universe is constantly...but are you saying that the island doesn't..erm...expand at the same rate as the earth? :(

No, I am saying the universe expands at a proportional rate, yet the spacial measurements do not therefore conform to the previously designated increments. An inch is not an inch if a foot is not a foot.

Offline Joseph_Kerr

  • Onlooker
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2008, 12:56:59 AM »
Or is the Island disconnected from normal time.. like a pocket within time that keeps it separated.

Offline JMart

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1664
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2008, 01:40:15 AM »
Was it just circling around lost?

i absolutely love love loveee this part of your quote :D hahaha

Offline Nancy Drew

  • DHARMA Scientist
  • ******
  • Posts: 7680
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2008, 01:51:03 AM »
Ok, I'm getting myself all confused about this time-gap thing.

If time moves differently on the island, doesn't that mean that the island isn't just 31 minutes behind the outside world?  Would it mean that for every chunk of time, the island moves another 31 minutes away from time on the outside world??

I have such a headache!

Offline Nancy Drew

  • DHARMA Scientist
  • ******
  • Posts: 7680
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2008, 01:54:53 AM »
But time moves differently on the island.  They wouldn't notice a difference at all if they were just behind by 31 minutes.  They notice a difference because for every certain amount of time passed, they become another 31 minutes off.

Offline CaseyMac

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1143
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2008, 04:42:41 AM »
Another excellent point.  So island time is the same as real world time.  Like, if i look at my clock at it says 10:10, sayid will look at his watch and it will say 10:10.  its just the "wrinkle" between the island and me that is off?
I think that sound correct.  It's is almost like there is a "maze" between the island and the outside world.  Time moves the same on either side, but you can't just take a direct route from one to the other.  Apparently Ben may know the trap door to the "maze".  Best analogy I can come up with.

Yeah, I think it is something along that line also.

The people on the island have had conversations with the outside world, so we know time on the island isn't moving at a different pace, or else there would be a delay, like on live news casts where the other person is across the globe.

Also, Faraday was extremely serious to Frank telling him to go back on the same heading, which I'm sure has something to do with the time gap. Dan's experiment was shooting a rocket with a sychronized clock. Thats all. I mean Dan doesn't seem to know much, but seems to be an expert in his field.

Something is funky with the time, and even the physicist seems to be having a hard time understanding it. My guess is if Frank takes a different heading he'd either stay stuck on the island (snowglobe theory) and not have enough fuel to try again, or the island would spit him out at a different time and/or place like the polar bear.

Offline Lion of Atreides

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 639
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2008, 06:14:21 AM »
This scene was genius.  At first it seemed that Frank & Jack's conversation about the Red Sox was fluff.  But placed up against Daniel's experiment, it provides crucial information.  Unlike in an oldie but goodie from the Trek canon guest-starring our own Daniel Dae Kim (http://www.jammersreviews.com/st-voy/s6/blink.php), we now know that time moves at the SAME RATE both on the island and off the island.  Otherwise, Frank would have revealed that the World Series hadn't been played yet (real world moving slower) or twenty World Series had been played (real world moving faster). 

Further support can be found in the missile/rocket/payload test.  Looking at a stopwatch, I timed the scene from when Regina said 'go' to 'reached target'.  It took 28 seconds to reach the target from her perspective, and 31+ minutes from Dan's.  By dividing 28 seconds into ~1880 seconds (i.e. 31+ minutes), you get a multiple of about 67.  If the island were somehow moving 67x slower, then yeah, we would've had about 18 World Series games (67 * 100 days on island * 1yr/365 days * 1 World Series/yr).

Ok.  So say at 2:40 Dan makes the call.  It would seem that at 2:40 Regina recieved the call end sent out the beacon.  But really, it's more like at 2:40 Dan makes the call, and then at 3:11 Regina recieves the call (31 minutes later) and sends out the beacon.  That could be explainable if there wasn't the fact that they were having a conversation. 

Yeah, I'm sure there wasn't a 31 minute delay in Regina receiving the call.  As you say, they were having a real-time conversation (at the speed of light).  It's clear that Dan's equipment on the island synchronized the two clocks using island time, transmitted by his communication equipment. 


 It's is almost like there is a "maze" between the island and the outside world.  Time moves the same on either side, but you can't just take a direct route from one to the other.  Apparently Ben may know the trap door to the "maze".  Best analogy I can come up with.

Agreed that time moves the same on the other side.  But I think the maze analogy doesn't work.  For one, the missile/payload flew in gentle arcs, which would not be conducive to a convoluted maze with sharp turns.  Also, I've seen a documentary on those people who have amateur rocket competitions, and I recall that those rockets flew for seconds, maybe a minute tops.  No way something so small as tonight's rocket/payload could carry enough fuel to stay airborne for 31 minutes.  It had to have 'truly' flown for just the 28 seconds.  If there was somehow a 'gap' of hundreds of miles between the island and the boat out in the real world,  then neither the one-way missile nor Frank's round trip on the chopper would have enough fuel for that uncalculated for increase in distance.

I can suggest two avenues:
 1) The old saw about perspective as the crucial explanatory factor, as in cases of a spaceship moving at the speed of light.  Depending on one's frame of reference (on the object in motion, at the target), time passes differently.   The missile/payload experienced the same time-passing-more-slowly effect while in transit.  But one would not expect that Regina's perspective would mirror the missile/payload's...
 2) The boundary between the real world and the island seems to near-normally allow EM signals & light through: the Portuguese guys at the listening post detected the EM pulse from the island; Penny's transmission was finally able to reach the island;  Sunlight comes thru, if a little more concentrated, perhaps due to refraction at the boundary;  Regina's signal got through.  Objects, i.e. those things moving at a tiny fraction of the speed of light, however, are somehow impacted at the boundary.

My guess is if Frank takes a different heading he'd either stay stuck on the island (snowglobe theory) and not have enough fuel to try again, or the island would spit him out at a different time and/or place like the polar bear.

The snowglobe analogy gets me thinking.  Maybe if you hit the boundary head on, you bounce  away in time/space.  Hit it too obliquely, and you either bounce back in, if trying to leave, or bounce back away, if trying to get in.  Hit it at the correct, shallow angle and you can penetrate it.  Sorta like the body shields in Dune, which deflect sudden knife thrusts, but let through slower-speed thrusts.

Hmmm.... So.... time moves at the same rate on the island as in the real world...that's all we can confirm for certain.  But anything moving through the barrier at subsonic speeds - Hanso's Black Rock, choppers, missiles - experiences this still unexplained time warp.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 07:38:28 AM by Lion of Atreides »

Offline Maxor127

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1337
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2008, 07:21:32 AM »
I'm trying to not even think about it.  If that's true, then a lot more time has passed on the outside world than we were led to believe.

Offline thebeann

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 566
    • View Profile
Re: Missile a time warp?
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2008, 09:14:09 AM »
Unless Lapidus is lying (which doesn't make sense since Daniel was so blatant about the time difference thing), then any time difference between island and the real world of the mission team must be relatively small. When Jack asked about the world series, he made a comment about it being 100 days. If it had been, say, 3 years, I would expect some sort of reaction from Lapidus.