Author Topic: "God cannot see the island", "light scatters differently" and other musings  (Read 7691 times)

Offline T Mack

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How is it that "God cannot see the island", (per Henry) and "light scatters differently" , according to nerdy physicist wannabe Faraday?

An article here entitled New Theory: How to Make Objects Invisible http://www.livescience.com/technology/050228_invisible_shield.html suggests how a physical property could be "cloaked" using science.  Of course this involves light, electromagnetism,  protons and neutrons, and all of the other little scientific goodies Lost has cleverly dropped into the lexicon of the average TV viewer over the last few years.  Naturally, the study involves very small objects at the Quantum Physics level, but conceivably using 'pseudo-science' perhaps something as large as an island could be rendered invisible by actually bending light rays and scattering them differently, something that our intrepid Faraday has made note of.

I think it stands to reason, that Wacky Whispers Island is effectively hidden by it's unique light bending electromagnetic properties, which render it 'invisible' to radar, sonar or other devices that use light waves. Is it really invisible? No, of course not, because we can see it, but it is invisible to the devices that we use to locate things in our universe.  The shield is invisible (the island is not literally a 'snow-globe', but a man-made one) and 'covers' the island and causes unique things to happen:

-light scatters differently
-cloaking (only while the shield is up, when it comes down or is pierced, others can enter or leave- how I don't know)
-no communication in or out (unless you are within a certain radius of the island, or have pierced the shield)
-strange 'weather events' (maelstroms), causing the chopper to go down, lightning to flash, rain to come and go on cue, etc.

As an aside, I believe Locke has a special ability to "feel" the magnetism or appreciate the light bending effects, warning him that rain is beginning or ending, for instance.  Henry and the Others didn't seem to alarmed by the 'purple sky' effect, leading me to believe that they also know about these special properties of the island.

Here is an excerpt of the article, the full one can be read at the link above:

New Theory: How to Make Objects Invisible By Robert Roy Britt, LiveScience Senior Writer

posted: 28 February 2005 01:00 pm ET

High-tech cloaking machines could one day render very small objects nearly invisible and perhaps improve military stealth technology, scientists said Monday.

The idea is straight out of science fiction -- cloaking technology made Romulan spaceships disappear in Star Trek. A humble version of the device could become a reality, according to Nader Engheta and Andrea Alu of the University of Pennsylvania.

But don't expect to hide yourself or your spaceship anytime soon, at least not in the standard sense of invisible. In practical terms, the research is more likely to lead to improved technical and research devices, and even these applications are years away.

How it would work

The proposal involves using plasmons -- tiny electronic excitations on the surfaces of some metals -- to cancel out the visible light or other radiation coming from an object.

"A proper design ... may induce a dramatic drop in the scattering cross-section, making the object nearly invisible to an observer," Nader and Alu write in a scientific paper that was made available to the public Feb. 14.

But cloaking ability would depend on an object's size, so that only with very small things -- items that are already microscopic or nearly so -- could the visible light be rendered null. A human could be made impossible to detect in longer-wavelength radiation such as microwaves, but not from visible light.

A spaceship might be made transparent to radio waves or some other long-wavelength detector.

The idea is in an infant stage but appears not to violate any laws of physics, according to an article Monday in news@nature.com, an online companion to the journal Nature, which provided advance copies of the story to reporters.



Offline T Mack

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Awww. No comments?  C'mon guys! ;>)

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Not sure if this explains anything..but if you look up Faraday in Wiki

Here is a little tid bit on the name Faraday
Notice that Maxwell name comes up again too!


Michael Faraday, FRS (September 22, 1791 August 25, 1867) was an English chemist and physicist (or natural philosopher, in the terminology of that time) who contributed to the fields of electromagnetism and electrochemistry.
Faraday studied the magnetic field around a conductor carrying a DC electric current, and established the basis for the magnetic field concept in physics. He discovered electromagnetic induction, diamagnetism and electrolysis. He established that magnetism could affect rays of light and that there was an underlying relationship between the two phenomena.[2][3] His inventions of electromagnetic rotary devices formed the foundation of electric motor technology, and it was largely due to his efforts that electricity became viable for use in technology.

COULD THIS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE COMMENT ABOUT LIGHT BEING DIFFERENT ON THE ISLAND?
NOTICE HIS BIRTHDATE?

read more here

Faraday's law of induction (or the law of electromagnetic induction) states that the induced electromotive force in a closed loop is directly proportional to the time rate of change of magnetic flux through the loop.

Moving a conductor (such as a metal wire) through a magnetic field produces a voltage in that conductor. The resulting voltage is proportional to the speed of movement: moving the conductor twice as fast produces twice the voltage. The magnetic field, the direction of movement, and the voltage are all at right angles to each other. Whenever movement creates voltage, Fleming's right hand rule describes the direction of the voltage. A fixed conductor will also have an induced voltage if the magnetic flux in the area enclosed by the conductor is changing.
read more here

Offline T Mack

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Indeed, I have seen the connections to Faraday the English physicist and I believe another direct link (and clue) that the light bending properties of the island and electromagnetism are at their core the scientific principles that the writers are using to explain their story and the anomalies we see including but not limited to:

-island cloaking
-whispers
-time shifts (phasing, looping, warping, travel, MPU's and whatever else you want to label them as)
-flash forwards and backs
-purple sky
-strange weather events
-Desmond traveling 'in circles'
-Locke remembering another result- "You aren't supposed to do this"
-polar bears in Tunisia

I do not believe that the island is 'moving'.  This would be a physical impossibility that cannot be explained by science or pseudoscience. That's not to say that the island couldn't be located (and invisible) in another part of the World such as Antarctica.  (we've never had an explanation of the two Portuguese guys at the station locating the electromagnetic anomaly).  The real question here is, if it is located in Antarctica, how are they using the electromagnetism and light bending to affect the weather there, causing it to be warm and tropical?  And how then did the plane get so far off course?  When it ripped through the fabric of the space time continuum did it in fact end up in another part of the world?

Offline laklost

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Indeed, I have seen the connections to Faraday the English physicist and I believe another direct link (and clue) that the light bending properties of the island and electromagnetism are at their core the scientific principles that the writers are using to explain their story and the anomalies we see including but not limited to:

-island cloaking
-whispers
-time shifts (phasing, looping, warping, travel, MPU's and whatever else you want to label them as)
-flash forwards and backs
-purple sky
-strange weather events
-Desmond traveling 'in circles'
-Locke remembering another result- "You aren't supposed to do this"
-polar bears in Tunisia

I do not believe that the island is 'moving'.  This would be a physical impossibility that cannot be explained by science or pseudoscience. That's not to say that the island couldn't be located (and invisible) in another part of the World such as Antarctica.  (we've never had an explanation of the two Portuguese guys at the station locating the electromagnetic anomaly).  The real question here is, if it is located in Antarctica, how are they using the electromagnetism and light bending to affect the weather there, causing it to be warm and tropical?  And how then did the plane get so far off course?  When it ripped through the fabric of the space time continuum did it in fact end up in another part of the world?


I like this thread.  It's a good summary. 

My husband's favorite theory is the snow globe one in which at some point the sky is going to crack and everyone is going to need a parka! (I guess he's figuring that Kate will still look hot... :D.)

post #4979

Offline T Mack

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Edited to add:

I am totally digging the "Vile Vortices" Theory posted here on the Tailsection http://www.thetailsection.com/lost-theories/the-vile-vortices-theory.php and I believe that this is how the plane came to enter the space-time which is Wacky Whispers island.

So the 3 main scientifically 'explained' properties that guide our favorite show are:

1.  Vile Vortices- explains how the plane can be in two places at once.  How one can be both alive and 'dead', and how things and people can move from one time thread to another and appear where they don't belong. (Jacob's cabin, the Blackrock ship, Yemi's biplane from Africa, polar bear in Tunisia).
2.  Electromagnetism and light bending- explains some of the more vexing physical properties of the island like cloaking, weather events, light scattering and snow globes which create physics anomalies which have never been seen on regular planet Earth).
3.  Casimir Effect- explains the dualities (two rabbits labeled #15 from the Orchid video), the time shifting, phasing, traveling, altering or whatever is taking place.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 01:59:45 PM by T Mack »

Offline laklost

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Edited to add:

I am totally digging the "Vile Vortices" Theory posted here on the Tailsection http://www.thetailsection.com/lost-theories/the-vile-vortices-theory.php and I believe that this is how the plane came to enter the space-time which is Wacky Whispers island.

So the 3 main scientifically 'explained' properties that guide our favorite show are:

1.  Vile Vortices- explains how the plane can be in two places at once.  How one can be both alive and 'dead', and how things and people can move from one time thread to another.
2.  Electromagnetism and light bending- explains some of the more vexing physical properties of the island like cloaking, weather events, and snow globes
3.  Casimir Effect- explains the dualities (two rabbits labeled #15 from the Orchid video), the time shifting, phasing, traveling, altering or whatever is taking place.

Thoughts?

#4984

My thoughts are that I have seen all this info scattered around, but not summarized so well.  Thanks. 

Offline T Mack

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Edited to add:

I am totally digging the "Vile Vortices" Theory posted here on the Tailsection http://www.thetailsection.com/lost-theories/the-vile-vortices-theory.php and I believe that this is how the plane came to enter the space-time which is Wacky Whispers island.

So the 3 main scientifically 'explained' properties that guide our favorite show are:

1.  Vile Vortices- explains how the plane can be in two places at once.  How one can be both alive and 'dead', and how things and people can move from one time thread to another.
2.  Electromagnetism and light bending- explains some of the more vexing physical properties of the island like cloaking, weather events, and snow globes
3.  Casimir Effect- explains the dualities (two rabbits labeled #15 from the Orchid video), the time shifting, phasing, traveling, altering or whatever is taking place.

Thoughts?

#4984

My thoughts are that I have seen all this info scattered around, but not summarized so well.  Thanks. 
You're very kind to say so.

Where I (think) I'm going is that the mysteries of Lost cannot and will not be explained by one theory per se, but will in fact be a multi-theory conglomeration of several theories currently seen in pseudo and experimental science (but not possible in today's world).  After all, if they wrote a story about things that can currently happen and are explainable in today's world as we know it, how boring would that be?

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

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As i was scrolling down in this thread i was totally thinking vile vortices.  What I like so much about that theory is how directly it ties into lost.  Not just the magnetism, but also the location of them.  I think there is  a thread on here about that, so I won't go into it, but yes, it makes you wonder....

As far as the island being cloaked goes...I just have to remember what Naomi said about finding the island.  Of course, she could have been lying, but she said something about flying over the ocean, the clouds parted, she saw the island.  THEN her machines went all funky and she stared going down.  Is that right?  So if it was cloaked...wouldn't she see the island after her gages went off? Do I know anything about how cloaking effects machines?  Of course not.  Just a thought.

Offline versed4every1

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There is an article about the Vile Vortices theory here.  Such vortices could explain how the Black Rock and a Nigerian airplane ended up on Craphole island and possibly even how the Dharma polar bear ended up off of it.

edited to add:

I am totally behind their being a viable scientific/pseudo-scientific reason for the obvious electromagnetic disturbances on the island and the possibility that Dharma was trying to harness that ability.   
« Last Edit: February 13, 2008, 03:14:18 PM by Versed4every1 »

Offline T Mack

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Re: "God cannot see the island", "light scatters differently" and other musings
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2008, 03:17:44 PM »
As i was scrolling down in this thread i was totally thinking vile vortices.  What I like so much about that theory is how directly it ties into lost.  Not just the magnetism, but also the location of them.  I think there is  a thread on here about that, so I won't go into it, but yes, it makes you wonder....

As far as the island being cloaked goes...I just have to remember what Naomi said about finding the island.  Of course, she could have been lying, but she said something about flying over the ocean, the clouds parted, she saw the island.  THEN her machines went all funky and she stared going down.  Is that right?  So if it was cloaked...wouldn't she see the island after her gages went off? Do I know anything about how cloaking effects machines?  Of course not.  Just a thought.
Desmond's boat went through a storm, the African Cessna was sputtering and going down, the Blackrock didn't beach itself, the Oceanic airliner broke up in mid-air, and Naomi's chopper and now the Fearsome Four's chopper encountered severe turbulence and crashed (although Lapadie's chopper is shown in mint condition).  IMO the cloaking device or the severity of going through a Vile Vortice caused all of these to happen.  Juliet had to be 'drugged' on the submarine because of the 'rough ride' as per Richard Alpert.

Two of those ill fated trips- Juliet's submarine ride and Lapadie's chopper- made it through without crashing. Hmmm....methinks something may be fishy about the freightie's chopper and what do they know about navigating Vile Vortice's?  Do they have some of the same knowledge as Ben's Others?

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

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Re: "God cannot see the island", "light scatters differently" and other musings
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2008, 03:30:19 PM »
Right, my take on the vile votecies is that they are sort of like wormholes to other parts of the world?  So...did they go through one to get to the island?  Or did they chart a course directly towards the island?  Like the plane was going along above nigeria and hit one of these things, and then ended up on on the island.... and the sub went from portland (was it?) across the ocean and hit another one and ended up on the island...and who knows where des' boat was before it may have hit one....? so can one travel from the shore, not hit a vile vortex, and still make it to the island?  Or is that the only way...? 

Do they have the same kind of knowledge as Ben's others?  Well, they figured out how to get to the island, so that is saying something.  But it seems like the only way the others were able to make it to the island was via submarine..as there was no runway.  But maybe they figured out a way for planes to land and that is why the runway was constructed.  ANYHOW.  ...?

Offline jugdish

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Re: "God cannot see the island", "light scatters differently" and other musings
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2008, 03:35:02 PM »
Very interesting theory and well stated. I went and read the article on the tailsection that you gave. Answers a lot of the questions, but I still see some problems with it.

If Amelia is the Amelia Earhart, she has not aged. Well than why does Ben, Walt, Alex aaron etc age. How does it account for some not(Richard?) and some not. Amelia came from off island, so she should have the same reactions as other people born off island. ( I believe Amelia and the dude with her will end up being Adam and Eve)

People leaving and comng to the island needs an explanation!

I also agree that one theory will not explain it all. So this one could explain, how the different vessels got there.

Offline T Mack

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Re: "God cannot see the island", "light scatters differently" and other musings
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2008, 03:42:33 PM »
Right, my take on the vile votecies is that they are sort of like wormholes to other parts of the world?  So...did they go through one to get to the island?  Or did they chart a course directly towards the island?  Like the plane was going along above nigeria and hit one of these things, and then ended up on on the island.... and the sub went from portland (was it?) across the ocean and hit another one and ended up on the island...and who knows where des' boat was before it may have hit one....? so can one travel from the shore, not hit a vile vortex, and still make it to the island?  Or is that the only way...? 

Do they have the same kind of knowledge as Ben's others?  Well, they figured out how to get to the island, so that is saying something.  But it seems like the only way the others were able to make it to the island was via submarine..as there was no runway.  But maybe they figured out a way for planes to land and that is why the runway was constructed.  ANYHOW.  ...?
Wormholes or "portals", agreed.  I don't claim to have all of the answers but certainly if you look at the locations of the Vile Vortices given on the map, they correspond to where "weird things" have happened.

Yemi's plane- Nigerian Vile Vortice
Oceanic-  Bali trench- south pacific
Polar bear in Tunisia-Mozambique trench, East Africa
Juliets trip from Florida- Bermuda triangle Vile Vortice (that little sub could never have made it from Florida to the South Pacific, ever)
Dudes in Antarctica?- another Vile Vortice there

Things that make you go...hmmm?

Offline jugdish

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Re: "God cannot see the island", "light scatters differently" and other musings
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2008, 03:46:17 PM »
Except that Juliet traved from "just outside Portland" not miami.