Author Topic: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?  (Read 18082 times)

Offline versed4every1

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2008, 04:58:11 PM »
I think it was a flashback.  As for the tears, remember Namoi called Faraday a "head case", not a genius.

Offline this is some crazy stuff

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2008, 05:51:48 PM »
Did anyone notice that they didnt show who Faraday was with.  I find this kind of odd that they did not show her face.  I think it will be somebody that we have seen before.  If it was just some random person i think they would have just showed us who.  Unless of course it is someone that they repeatedly use as an extra and dont want to confuse by having her appear in different places, and not really mean anything to the story.

Offline CastawayCayley

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2008, 06:00:39 PM »
Did anyone notice that they didnt show who Faraday was with.  I find this kind of odd that they did not show her face.  I think it will be somebody that we have seen before.  If it was just some random person i think they would have just showed us who.  Unless of course it is someone that they repeatedly use as an extra and dont want to confuse by having her appear in different places, and not really mean anything to the story.

I saw this as a story telling device. If they just show a man watching a news report of the discovery of the wreckage of a downed plane and sobbing about it, a viewer is likely to presume he knew someone on the flight. You put in a background character asking "Why are you crying?" for exposition purposes, all the while focusing the camera only on the crying man, it tells us that this is unusual behavior and makes us make note of it.

Offline puff6962

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2008, 07:13:47 PM »
In each of the flash scenes, we are allowed to see how each of the boaties responded to the news of O 815.

Charlotte refuses to believe it, no matter how many papers it's in.
Miles looks around and in the rear view mirror upon the news.
Frank calls the NTFB to inform them that it is not the plane.
Dan cries without reason.
 
Yet, Naomi, the leader of the boaties, is only expresses the possibility of there being survivors of 815 on the island.

If the scenes were flashbacks:

So, Charlotte should have said to the survivors, "I knew you were here."
Miles....no conclusion.
Daniel...."I'm so glad you're alive"
Frank...."Those bastards at NTFB didn't believe me, but now I've shown them.  Where's my friend Seth Norris?"

But these things were not said.  Therefore, I conclude that the scenes (except Naomi) are flashforwards, the boaties got back, and their memories and/or their realities have changed.

Offline jugdish

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2008, 07:18:45 PM »
That is quite a leap there. These four people are on a mission in which they are lying to people. They are not being forthcoming and are keeping secrets from them . Only Charlotte pretended to be surprised, it is very possible she was just pretending. It is also very likely that the people they are working for are not telling them everything.

They were flashbacks introducing us to the characters and giving us a glimpse into there backgrounds.

Offline lostandfree

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2008, 07:41:49 PM »
That is quite a leap there. These four people are on a mission in which they are lying to people. They are not being forthcoming and are keeping secrets from them . Only Charlotte pretended to be surprised, it is very possible she was just pretending. It is also very likely that the people they are working for are not telling them everything.

They were flashbacks introducing us to the characters and giving us a glimpse into there backgrounds.

I agree with this.

I think they are flashbacks and that the losties are having flashforwards.  There are no "flash sideways".  That's just too confusing and weird.  And yes, they are all lieing about something.

Offline versed4every1

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2008, 08:06:18 PM »
If the scenes were flashbacks:

So, Charlotte should have said to the survivors, "I knew you were here."
Miles....no conclusion.
Daniel...."I'm so glad you're alive"
Frank...."Those bastards at NTFB didn't believe me, but now I've shown them.  Where's my friend Seth Norris?"

But these things were not said.  Therefore, I conclude that the scenes (except Naomi) are flashforwards, the boaties got back, and their memories and/or their realities have changed.

I have to disagree with you.  To me, the flashbacks were our introduction to the "Dream Team" and an insight into the reasons each of them were chosen.  They knew that the 815 survivors were there.  Remember, Frank very innocuously got Juliet to give him her first and last name and then immediately knew she was not on the plane which he had memorized.  Charlotte, also rather innocently asked Hurley how many of them survived - nice to know how many people you are up against, and if Claire had delivered her baby on the island; which she found very interesting.  Miles was very antagonistic when Sayid asked why they were not surprised to see survivors.  Daniel is just too weird to even come up with a good excuse for why they are really there.  (I was not in charge of packing.. please!)  Only Naomi had the insight to stick to her original story in order to gain their trust and get her team on the island.  That was why she was hired. 

I doubt that we would get a flashback for Namoi and flashforwards for everyone else.  It wouldn't make sense.   

Offline puff6962

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2008, 08:34:37 PM »
Everybody disagrees with me.  Last year I predicted that Locke would survive because the bullet passed where his kidney should have been.  Quite a leap.

One question.....why would alcoholic Frank guy participate in a cover up of a plane crash in which he was supposed to be the pilot, his friend actually was, and he feels guilty about?  Answer....He wouldn't.  Yet, he is shown working with a group who care nothing for the survivors and who, if Mr. Abaddon is to be believed, "did not" survive even if they did.

The answer......he wouldn't.

So, he is then shown phoning the NTSB telling them that this is not 815.  So, he is not participating in the cover-up.  Now, you have to ask why people so smart as to get to the island would allow this guy to go with them.  If they knew that he was to be the pilot of 815, they certainly wouldn't expect him to keep his mouth shut about seeing survivors (and we know that survivors were considered prior to the mission). 

The plausible explanations evaporate when you see his behavior towards Juliet....he doesn't care about the losties, only a native. 

So, why then is he concerned about the history of 815 after the news flash?

Maybe he was chosen because he suspected that 815 had been a cover up and his phone call got him recruited.  But that doesn't explain his nonchalance towards the losties.

Next, he might have placed the call as part of the operation to shift focus to the cover up by the "other side."

And, he might be placing the call after he got back from the mission because he is now in Desmond land (alternate reality) and a flash forward.

Finally, he might have a wet brain from drinking so much.

Offline versed4every1

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2008, 09:03:15 PM »
I still disagree.  First of all, we don't know the situation that brought about the change in pilot that day - IF we are speculating, it could have very well been something like his friend, Seth, reporting him for being drunk on duty resulting in Frank losing his job.  Just because he knew that Seth always wore a wedding ring doesn't mean that he was still the guy's best friend.  His phone call to NTSB is what makes me believe it was PRIOR to his trip to the island.  I think he was recruited because of the call and his connection to the flight AND the fact that he is a drunk.  Maybe he was promised his life back- who knows.  Greed is a powerful motivator.

It is interesting though that the very things that make me see it as a flashback, make you see it as a flash-forward. 

 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2008, 09:18:55 PM by Versed4every1 »

Offline jugdish

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2008, 10:06:59 PM »
Puff once again it is ok that we disagree. I fundamentatally disagree that all of these people are living separate timelives, doing their own "Desmond". Again I am not saying that the four people are part of the cover up. I have said the opposite of that. Their interest in the 815 crash is what brought them to the attention of "the evil corporation". The 4 people do not know all of the "evil corporation" true motive. I believe the 4 are told by the EC that we might know something about 815 crash, they peak their interest with some information about this weird island, you just have to help us find this Ben guy. You get your answers your curiosity and we get Ben. The 4 do not have the whole story.

That is my belief.

And not everyone disagrees with you, there are a lot of people around here saying the same thing.

Offline puff6962

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2008, 10:16:57 PM »
He is behaving in diametrically opposed fashions.  

The only thing that would explain the strange behaviors of the boaties (except Naomi) would be for their actions to have occurred after they have left the island (notice I don't say the future).

They, like Jack and Hurley, have been thrust into Desmondland by the mechanism that got them off of the island.  When they go back, memories of the island (and possibly of their pre-island reality) are coming back piecemeal.  That is why Miles just looks around (no recollection yet), Dan cries without knowing the reason (early return), and Charlotte/Frank express disbelief when given the news of 815.

In seasons one through three, the flashbacks gradually captured the characters letting us know why they were who they were.  These clips were much different and were similar to last week's Hurley FF (flashforward).  They were quick, focused on 815 (why?), and showed no interconnection to the characters (as is often seen with FB's).

Season three's climax, last week, and this week's shows have left me each time wondering whether the world these guys came back to was the same as that they left.  I think this applies to the scenes (FF's) of the boaties as well and, therefore, I believe that the mechanism that got them off of the island has sent them all back to an alternate reality.  The boaties went back through the same mechanism and are therefore getting the same Desmondland treatment.

Offline jugdish

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2008, 10:22:30 PM »
We are going to have to agree to disagree. To me your theory is baffling. Naomi told them that the plane was found in the trench, they are with naomi and they show them finding out the same information. So it has to be a flashback. Nothing personal, just a difference of opinion. We could go around like this for the next three years neither convincing the other. I will not buy your theory until it is on the show. It is just to far out there for me.

So once again, time will tell.

Offline LostAndSeek

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2008, 11:00:00 PM »
In each of the flashBACKS, the Boaties are just finding out about Oceanic being found at the bottom of the sea. Naomi tells the losties that they had been found at the bottom of the sea and all are presumed dead when she landed on the island. So, I think it is pretty clear that we are supposed to view these as flashbacks. Not to say we aren't being intentionally misled  :)

I agree completely. We're seeing these people the day they found out that 815 was supposedly found. And unless we're being misled that's in the past.

Offline Creflo

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2008, 11:25:45 PM »
Everybody disagrees with me.  Last year I predicted that Locke would survive because the bullet passed where his kidney should have been.  Quite a leap.

Exhibit A:
http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=5002.msg246953#msg246953
xrayeck first(?) proposes the missing kidney saved him

Exhibit B:
http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=5042.msg249587#msg249587
Tech In proposes same.  Are you shooting him down with "if you're shot from the front, it's very difficult to get to the kidney without damaging the stuff in front of it."

I'm not trying to take away your claim to an accurate prediction.  In fact, the reason I searched this out is that I coulda' sworn I had put the same theory in "print" early on, and I wanted to toot my horn for having called it back when he got shot.  Alas, I only told a couple of folks irl.



As for your point about the behavior of the Dropees as they are hearing the news about the plane...

It seems much more likely that the reason we are being presented with the 4 flashba-...er, character studies beginning as they do with the person getting the news IS <draws breath> that it goes towards their motivation for joining the team.

The pilot's is the easiest.  He is upset by the cover story he KNOWS to be false.  He is put on the team because his obvious skill is useful and because if he is lost to The Island, that's one less loose thread to be tied up.

C.S. lewis is the next easiest to divine.  She is a student of DHARMA, etc and has been nosing around.  She, too, smells the B.S. and, again, will either join in the conspiracy because her life's work can be realized better on The Island than anywhere else.  Again, if she is lost, one less loose thread.  However, she's probably DHARMA-related in some way, like a child of, etc.

Faraday's motives have not yet been revealed.  I'm not convinced that he's not simply concealing his reason for sadness from the as-yet-unrevealed paramour.  It's probably no accident that they didn't reveal his reason for crying OR who she is.

Maelstrom's reaction that you describe (looking around after pulling the car up to the ghost house) struck me at the time as nothing more than a quick, paranoid scan of the area to see if he was followed or if a suspicious van is monitoring the location for hucksters.

All four were given a thorough briefing before the mission, surely.  It included how to B.S., stick to your story, and act convincing.  They were probably given individual assignments and any covert op worth its boogeyman is not going to tell the folks each others' mission.   The way each Dropee reacts when found demonstrates their level of B.S.-ability.

Puff, please don't stop speculating with your wild, often unsubstantiated theories.  I never dismiss any of them outright without considering them carefully, even if it means rereading the damn manifestos several times before I catch your drift.  You are one of the most interesting posters and that's what this place is all about!

Offline thebeann

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Re: Were They Flashforwards or Flashbacks?
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2008, 11:49:16 PM »
Oh my gawd...flashBACKS!

Naomi in her flashBACK knew that flight 815 crashed on the island. In talking about her mission on the island, she asks the Oceanic guy a couple of times, what if there are survivors? He replies, "There were no survivors of flight 815." I have to conclude from this that the others knew the plane crashed there too. Maybe they weren't expecting survivors, but they knew the plane didn't go down off the coast of indonesia.

So Naomi knows that 815 went down on the island. Charlotte knows too, so she's a little amazed that there are survivors but it explains why she is so skeptical about the newspaper article. She knows about Dharma too. Probably she's connected to Widmore somehow...but more likely Daddy than Penny.

Miles flashBACK purpose seemed to be to show his ghost-communication skill (handy on an island with at least one ghost, maybe many, and where there is a history of people talking to dead people).

Daniel is unstable, so who knows why he was crying? Not because he had already lived his mission and now is reflecting.

Point is, from my perspective, the fluidity of the timeline makes perfect sense if one assumes they were flashbacks, not flash forwards. To justify them being flashforwards takes a stretch. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.