Fake Plane is Not 815

[pauinha6]

sorry, i didn't notice i typed plain instead of plane LOLOLOL

i guess my brain is worse than i thought LOLOLOLOl

back to therapy for me

thx CC

don't get all fired up cw! don't need to! thx for fixing me

you dont remember do you??? last season?? LOL

i will have to dig up the post

i'm not fired up, i'm actually in quite a good mood today

no, i don't remember, my memory sucks very very badly LOL

please dig it up for me


well, it's friday, what's not to be on a good mood

and i just watched the epi and i LUVD it, so.... all is good

[Foxyschic]

I like the following post from losteastereggs, that elegantly connects the events of prior seasons to the effects on the timeline(s) we're increasingly being shown...

Anonymous said...
The 1st thing I thought was that it DID sound like Ms. Klugh. I wrote a theory back a few months about String theory here it is:
"string theory" was something that scientists were "over the moon" about in the 60's and 70's - OK excuse the pun... String theory attempts to further explain the dynamics of Quantum Gravity. String theory makes things like black-holes, time travel or dimensional travel a real possibility. There is the possibility in string theory and the more advanced M theory that other dimensions do exist.

Now for the Hey, I'm just watching a TV show explanation; Maybe the Dharma people were working on things all related to string theory and its relevance to gravity and electromagnetism. Maybe they messed with the electromagnetic field around the earth causing the "incident" and used the Magnet in the hatch keep different dimensions from touching each other (think of the strings on a harp being different dimensions) and during a "system failure" the dimensions do touch each other. Maybe after initially having someone enter the numbers, they had an automatic system and that's why the other's didn't seem to be concerned about the hatch. maybe that system was destroyed when John smashed the computer. When there is an actual system failure, things from other dimensions get pulled into the one where the hatch and the island are. - WNGYPSY

Saturday, February 10, 2007 4:05:00 PM


...hence, the plane from an alternate dimension, the same plane as Flight 815 in this dimension, got pulled into our dimension, along with Flight 815, when Des was late in inputting the numbers.  And yeah, John blowing up the Swan entirely could cause ripples among the dimensions, manifested by alternate timelines in a state of flux that can be changed/chosen from by a powerful few at the locus on this island (leaders like Ben, John or Jack; martyrs like Charlie; the lucky like Hurley; keystones line Des).

So, if I understand you correctly, it is actually possible for several other strings of losties to end up in the mix.  One of the things that i struggle with in the idea of alternate realities, is that there are no rules to it.  It is science fiction. So, who's to say how many alternate lives Jack could lead? 

I lean more towards the paranormal--but within a real context.  Like the idea that Hurley is just mentally unstable and is imagining conversations with Charlie.  So, for the moment, I have to agree with the idea that it is a cover up. 

[bobfromplumbing]

One thing I noticed when I watched this episode for the fourth or fifth time, when Frank calls the Oceanic hotline and finally gets the "supervisor" the switch from the operator occurs awfully quick (IMO), and the voice on the other end sounds a bit creepy.  No "this is supervisor such and such and such, how may i help you."  His tone of voice, and the things he says sound suspect.  My guess is the boaties, or whomever performed the cover-up, were monitoring communication, waiting for someone to blow their cover.

[LostAndSeek]

It's Abaddan, isn't it? I thought it was the same voice and that this was the start of the pilot ended up on the team.

[TXFlyboy]

Just a point of information:

Maxor127
"Different time period as in different dimension or historical era or it's just a different plane?  Kind of hard to misplace two planes.

It's definitely an Oceanic plane and all planes are clearly marked and have numbers so they can be identified.  So it being a different plane that's getting confused with 815 seems most unlikely of all.  So to me, the two choices would be either a) there was a cover up and someone planted a fake 815 plane down there, which would be extremely expensive and depending on whether the bodies in there are real or not, very f'ed up."

It is true that all aircraft do have registration numbers commonly refered to as "N" Numbers.  While those of us in general aviation do use our "N" number to identify ourselves to Air Traffic Control, commercial airlines use a "Flight" Number to identify themselves to ATC.  Hence a commercial aircraft with a "N" number of say N-4815  can actually be Flight 815 one day say on a flight from Sydney to LA and the exact same plane on a return trip from LA to Sydney the following day could be Flight 518.  Same plane just different flight numbers.  Because we never actually saw any N numbers on the plane that crashed or the one at the bottom of the trench we cannot discount the possibility that the plane in the trench is a plant.

*MaZ*
"I think it's not 815. The Brit girl on the freighter said she didn't either, no matter in how many languages she read it...it's got to mean something! In the other hand, a set up of that magnitute, a whole plane fuselage and real bodies to go with it sounds quite impossible...how do you transport and sink an airliner full of dead bodies?"

It is easier to tranport a plane than one would think.  The Boeing 777-300 and Airbus 380 are roughly the same size and share a similar empty weight.  Both planes have the capacity to seat the number of passengers listed.  Both are about 250' long with wingspans of 200'  The wings are removable.  The emply weight of each aircraft is about 170,000 lbs empty.  Todays cargo container ships are as long as 400 feet and can carry up to 150,000 tons.  It would be easy to put a plane on one of those.  As a matter of fact that is how they moved the plane they used on the beach crash sight from CA. to HI.   Anyway in theory it would be quite easy for Paik Heavy Industries or Widmore Industries to transport a fuselage.  Many of todays Cargo ships have crane systems built onto the ship.

As far as it being full of passengers, I believe the only actual body we saw was that of a body sitting in the pilots seat (the left seat).

Since the episode last year when Naomi told the losties the plane had been found in the trench I thougth it was a cover up.  I still do.

[Maxor127]

I'm kind of stuck in the middle between it being planted and some freaky space time stuff going on.  Both seem too impossible, but I don't see any other explanation.  My biggest problem with the theory that it was planted and there's a huge cover-up is where do you get 325+ bodies from.  I'm assuming they just left the bodies down there and there was no practical way to recover the plane or bodies, although you'd think they'd want to investigate what caused the crash, especially if so much media interest was surrounding it.

[LostAndSeek]

I think it was either physically planted or fake input was transmitted to the ROVs.

I seem to be a cult of one on the latter hypothesis....

On the former, I worry about the bodies too, but the coverer uppers probably wouldn't need hundreds of bodies. Just enough to be convincing. Maybe just the pilot and a sprinkling inside the windows.....

[TXFlyboy]

It has never been stated they recovered the bodies.  If you recall when the losties first met Naomi and she was telling them the plane had been found she made it a point to say how deep it was.  Too deep to make a recovery of anything of any significant size. The only body we have seen so far is that of the pilot named Seth.  If you can fake a plane crash you could certainly fake a body or two - enought to convince the general public there are what appear to be bodies.

The NTSB does investigate all crashes with what they call an Incident Report.  Problem here is the inaccessibility of the plane.  So any report on their part would only be specuation.

[dizzyb]

Just a point of information:

Maxor127
"Different time period as in different dimension or historical era or it's just a different plane?  Kind of hard to misplace two planes.

It's definitely an Oceanic plane and all planes are clearly marked and have numbers so they can be identified.  So it being a different plane that's getting confused with 815 seems most unlikely of all.  So to me, the two choices would be either a) there was a cover up and someone planted a fake 815 plane down there, which would be extremely expensive and depending on whether the bodies in there are real or not, very f'ed up."

It is true that all aircraft do have registration numbers commonly refered to as "N" Numbers.  While those of us in general aviation do use our "N" number to identify ourselves to Air Traffic Control, commercial airlines use a "Flight" Number to identify themselves to ATC.  Hence a commercial aircraft with a "N" number of say N-4815  can actually be Flight 815 one day say on a flight from Sydney to LA and the exact same plane on a return trip from LA to Sydney the following day could be Flight 518.  Same plane just different flight numbers.  Because we never actually saw any N numbers on the plane that crashed or the one at the bottom of the trench we cannot discount the possibility that the plane in the trench is a plant.

*MaZ*
"I think it's not 815. The Brit girl on the freighter said she didn't either, no matter in how many languages she read it...it's got to mean something! In the other hand, a set up of that magnitute, a whole plane fuselage and real bodies to go with it sounds quite impossible...how do you transport and sink an airliner full of dead bodies?"

It is easier to tranport a plane than one would think.  The Boeing 777-300 and Airbus 380 are roughly the same size and share a similar empty weight.  Both planes have the capacity to seat the number of passengers listed.  Both are about 250' long with wingspans of 200'  The wings are removable.  The emply weight of each aircraft is about 170,000 lbs empty.  Todays cargo container ships are as long as 400 feet and can carry up to 150,000 tons.  It would be easy to put a plane on one of those.  As a matter of fact that is how they moved the plane they used on the beach crash sight from CA. to HI.   Anyway in theory it would be quite easy for Paik Heavy Industries or Widmore Industries to transport a fuselage.  Many of todays Cargo ships have crane systems built onto the ship.

As far as it being full of passengers, I believe the only actual body we saw was that of a body sitting in the pilots seat (the left seat).

Since the episode last year when Naomi told the losties the plane had been found in the trench I thougth it was a cover up.  I still do.

dude you quite literally rock actually... :*
can i add - although Paula did already - I think the plane was planted so very far off the flight path so that it would not be found by regular air traffic. sure there may be deep trenches closer to where the flight should have been, but a big ole freighter and crane depositing an aeroplane serupticipusly might look a smidgen suspicious....

[Lion of Atreides]

Thanks TXFlyboy. Your information on cargo ships' capacity to transport a fuselage has me reconsidering the logistical possibility of a coverup placing the plane found in the Sunda Trench.  And sure, if you can port an entire plane secretly, you probably have the ability to find some corpses to plant, betting that decomposition will do its thing.  And easing the fake plane into the water would be more likely to result in the consolidated debri field seen in the ROV footage. 

I'm still perplexed why the Sunda Trench.  It's near one of the busiest shipping lanes in the world.  Further, t's not just off the Sydney-LA flight path, it's the wrong direction entirely.  Radar control records would surely disprove such an anomaly.  If any 'ole deep trench will do, why not the Tonga Trench, which extends north from New Zealand, and lies in the flight path.  I wouldn't worry about whether air traffic passing overhead might see- kind of hard to see 5 miles beneath you, especially if they dump the plane at night, possibly during a window when no flights are scheduled to be pass overhead. The bigger worry is avoiding surface search vessels.  Easily solved: it's a big ocean.

It's possible that while the writers were crafting the Find 815 website storyline, they came across this '2nd Bermuda Triangle around the Sunda Trench' nugget.  Of course there have been lots of ships & planes lost in the area, given the relatively heavy traffic in this busy shipping lane, frequency of cyclones, etc.  Anyhow, the writers probably decided to go with the Sunda Trench for the better backstory, thinking that the vast majority of the audience either wouldn't notice the geographical discrepancy, or would be like the typical American who's clueless about geography.  I look forward to seeing whether they explain why the Sunda Trench was chosen, if this indeed turns out to be a coverup.  Tho, keeping the Orchid video in mind, I'm still holding some hope that during the electromagnetic accident caused by Des, the Island cloned the ENTIRE Flight 815, just like with the failed teleportation/accidental cloning of Bunny #15.  Extrapolating, could the Losties be the clones, not meant to ever leave the island, while the original Flight 815 got teleported to the bottom of the Sunda Trench?  Egad, it's starting to sound like a Star Trek storyline:

http://www.jammersreviews.com/st-voy/s5/oblivion.php

[hyperform]

btw, I went back and watched the scene in the cockpit with the pilot in the pilot episode, just cuz I was bored and wanted to check. It was almost like he was trying to cover his left hand the whole scene, the only way that i saw that he did have a wedding ring on was by pauseing at just the right moment. Its almost like they knew this would come up at some point in the future.

[puff6962]

The airplane from the pilot episode is a lockeed L-1011.  You can see this due to the third engine at the tail rudder.  In the opening scene this week, the airplane identified as O 815 lacks that third engine.  It is a Boeing 777. 

Prop error?
Bad cover-up job?
Wrong jet crash?
Different reality?

You know my thoughts on this one.  There was no reason for the model used in the opening scene not to have matched a L-1011.  The difference was purposeful.  Magic box, new reality.

[Lion of Atreides]

Nice catch on the different plane models. I also noticed that the way to plane was discovered in Find 815 is not how it was discovered at the beginniong of Confirmed Dead.  Our new Aussie character Sam is piloting the ROV in Find 815, while there's two guys with American accents (and two ROVs?) in Confirmed Dead.  They don't show the plane, tho, in Find 815.

How is it that Sam, who walks onto the expedition last-minute out of the blue, gets to pilot the ROV? I'd think that is a job for a trained ROV pilot.  Watching Oscar Talbot's face as Sam discovers the plane in Find 815, tho, it's clear he was not surprised to find it.  Almost as if he schemed to have the plane found this way, using the Black Rock search as a red herring...

[IFP]

Just curious what others might think - did anyone find it odd that the found plane was broken apart in the exact same places as what we witnessed? i.e. the tail section was broken off, cleanly, and the cockpit section. If this was a cover up, then a) the cover-uppers knew exactly how the real plane broke apart and b) felt it needed to be replicated precisely for some reason. Odd, no? It's clearly not just the gathered remains of the real crash because Jack and Kate were hanging out around part of it. Maybe the plane, as it was breaking up, did indeed clone and teleport somehow, like the polar bear in Tunisia? (assuming that that's what happened with the bear) Then again, Lost is very good at making things start to look a certain way, where you're certain you've caught on, and then pulling the rug out from under you with a massive WTF moment. That could apply to to the cover-up theory as well though, as alot of things do seem to point to a cover up.

end digression

so, did anyone else think the plane in the trench appeared to be split up exactly like what we saw happen to 815? I thought I even saw the circular black "burn" marks.

[lostfan777]

The airplane from the pilot episode is a lockeed L-1011.  You can see this due to the third engine at the tail rudder.  In the opening scene this week, the airplane identified as O 815 lacks that third engine.  It is a Boeing 777. 

Prop error?
Bad cover-up job?
Wrong jet crash?
Different reality?

You know my thoughts on this one.  There was no reason for the model used in the opening scene not to have matched a L-1011.  The difference was purposeful.  Magic box, new reality.

Nice catch about the different model planes, but I have to play devil's advocate here.  You're seeing this as evidence of split/two realities.  Why not see this as a hint that whoever staged a coverup had limitations to how many jumbo jets were available to sink into the ocean and they had to make due with what they had?  Or maybe it was a continuity error?

I'm not saying your theories are wrong.  I think the writers will hint at both possibilities for as long as they can to keep us on the edge of our seats (and at each others throats!  )