The Future Ain't What It Used To Be....

[T Mack]

I'm too much of a realist for this thread.  No offense crazy out there minds.  If Lost was about this then that would explain why nobody watches it anymore.  I just don't agree.  I won't cite any of the specific theories.  I just feel that if writers wanted this show to be that complex than the jokes on us. 

i'm with you ppwi.  i'm too much of a realist as well (although christian IS alive).  i just don't think there will be "time travel."  tptb have also stated that there are scientific explanations for everything that happens on the show.  maybe there are theories of time travel, but not facts, not proof, therefore i don't think it will be on this show.  that said.....  you guys sure are fun to read!

The ship has left the dock and you two are standing there holding your bags waving.

The producers have already stated THERE WAS TIME TRAVEL. They stated it in the podcast and were quoted as saying such in interviews.  How many times does it have to be repeated before you will finally accept that?  Now, did Desmond physically travel through space or did his mind travel and he was able to telepathically transport himself somewhere else? That is the remaining question to which I will grant you we do not know the answer as of yet.  It's amazing to me that some people will still accept that a dead man is still "alive" but that time travel is "too crazy".

[T Mack]

By the way, I am so sorry about the AIRHEAD thing.  This WAS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE but was just a commentary on all of this MPU stuff being thrown about.  I only figured out that term myself yesterday.  So sorry you all, no offense intended.

 

I started the MPU acronym on here last year after the episode "Flashes".  But I stole it from a combination of reading some of Stephen Hawkings work and another poster on DarkUFO who used "multiple universes", but did not include the 'parallel' interpretation.

[Jugdish]

I know "time travel" of some sort is part of this show. Desmond did it, either just through his mind or physically, I don't know. To me it is the extent of time manipulation, time travel, MPU's or what ever you want to call it. I do not believe it is going to be the defining aspect of the show. THe conclusion is not going to be too difficult for the masses to understand. It will touch on scientific events happening, but it will end being a real human drama

[LostAndSeek]

I agree with Juggy!

Clearly only Des's mind went back. Penny woulda noticed if there were two of him.

[PrincessLeia]

I agree with Juggy!

Clearly only Des's mind went back. Penny woulda noticed if there were two of him.

I agree, but the Orchid film indicates that there may be physical aspects as well!

[LostAndSeek]

Quite so. Didn't we have this discussion once before? 

If the Orchid film was time travel it was the physical kind.

[Creflo]

I believe that there is and will continue to be time travel on the show.

I believe that if one goes back and alters the past, they divert themselves to an alternate reality (per Puff, parallel is an inaccurate term) and there are infinite paths.  See my Realm of Possibilities© http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=3714.msg190572#msg190422 rants.

I do not, however, believe that Hurley has been moving back and forth or that he is in an alternate reality where he didn't win the lottery.  Nor do I think that any of the other 6 exist in some kind of alternate future where the pasts we've seen in flashbacks (Jack loses wife, etc) have somehow been altered.

In re-watching this evening, though, and I did have a notion about Charlie's reappearance.  Perhaps, at his moment of death (which was relatively long and left time for contemplation) he is enabled by The Island in a similar way to Desmond.  For one thing, he's already comfortable with the idea of precognition based on his experiences with Dez.  Also, he's fully committed to his sacrifice, well before the moment of truth.  And he has a connection with The Island to some degree, imo.

Let's imagine that he experiences a "Flashes Before Your Eyes" moment like Dez, as enabled by The Island which has a use for him.  He is given the opportunity to appear in tangible form at various times/places and nudge events.  Sure, it only takes a minute or so for him to drown.  But it that time, he "goes towards the light" and lives a series of visitations in the future which steer events to the benefit of The Island.  It's similar to the way Desmond turned the key and lived all that pasttime paradise only to return with only a brief moment of current Island time having elapsed.

The difference is that Dez could be thought to have entered his own past shoes at the point of the paint spill.  Since there is no future for Charlie, it is feasible for him to enter the future at any time with creating duplicates.

IMO, time travel where duplicates are created violates the "matter cannot be created or destroyed" notion, but then how can real physics be applied to this fiction.

[Jugdish]

I believe that there is and will continue to be time travel on the show.

I believe that if one goes back and alters the past, they divert themselves to an alternate reality (per Puff, parallel is an inaccurate term) and there are infinite paths.  See my Realm of Possibilities© http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=3714.msg190572#msg190422 rants.

I do not, however, believe that Hurley has been moving back and forth or that he is in an alternate reality where he didn't win the lottery.  Nor do I think that any of the other 6 exist in some kind of alternate future where the pasts we've seen in flashbacks (Jack loses wife, etc) have somehow been altered.

In re-watching this evening, though, and I did have a notion about Charlie's reappearance.  Perhaps, at his moment of death (which was relatively long and left time for contemplation) he is enabled by The Island in a similar way to Desmond.  For one thing, he's already comfortable with the idea of precognition based on his experiences with Dez.  Also, he's fully committed to his sacrifice, well before the moment of truth.  And he has a connection with The Island to some degree, imo.

Let's imagine that he experiences a "Flashes Before Your Eyes" moment like Dez, as enabled by The Island which has a use for him.  He is given the opportunity to appear in tangible form at various times/places and nudge events.  Sure, it only takes a minute or so for him to drown.  But it that time, he "goes towards the light" and lives a series of visitations in the future which steer events to the benefit of The Island.  It's similar to the way Desmond turned the key and lived all that pasttime paradise only to return with only a brief moment of current Island time having elapsed.

The difference is that Dez could be thought to have entered his own past shoes at the point of the paint spill.  Since there is no future for Charlie, it is feasible for him to enter the future at any time with creating duplicates.

IMO, time travel where duplicates are created violates the "matter cannot be created or destroyed" notion, but then how can real physics be applied to this fiction.

Now this is good! I like this theory, I can support this one. It has the right combinations of some scientific and theological explanations. If you believe that the island is about your chance for redemption, then that can explain why Charlie would have a connection to the island, and become one of its protector. He overcame his dependency on drugs, really accepted his place as a surrogate father and gave his life to save Claire and Aaron. He absolutely gave up his life willingly and with acceptance.

[puff6962]

The future ain't what it used to be.

The key to an explanation of EVERYTHING will depend upon Ben.  Let's hope that he stays alive.

[JBRam]

In Des's flashback, he only had faint memories of what had happened and barely knew what happened on the island until Charlie jogged his memory. Jack, Kate, and Hurley are completely and always conscious of the past, the island. ALSO, THEY KNOW EACH OTHER. They didn't before.

So no, they didn't go back in time.

Sorry if someone else already said this... I skimmed through the 6 pages I missed, only reading every fourth one or so...

[Desmond8MyPopRocks]

In Des's flashback, he only had faint memories of what had happened and barely knew what happened on the island until Charlie jogged his memory. Jack, Kate, and Hurley are completely and always conscious of the past, the island. ALSO, THEY KNOW EACH OTHER. They didn't before.

So no, they didn't go back in time.

Sorry if someone else already said this... I skimmed through the 6 pages I missed, only reading every fourth one or so...

JB:
that's not true.  "they didn't know eachother before," in addition to being disingenuous.  You are forgetting the opening scene of Jack's S1 flashback when he's doing the exact same thing he's doing in the S3 finale while on the plane.  drinking, shaking, sputtering his glass.

You cannot say with difinitive authority that the Losties haven't been there before, nor as the show has proved, that they haven't met eachother before.  Nice try, tho.

Great to see ya!

Jack's pink elephant cheers
*Des8

[Desmond8MyPopRocks]

My final thought on this subject:

While I generally think Cuse/Lindelof are self-lauding, pat themselves on the back a$$holes, if they thought out what I think they did as of tonight, they're pretty fing smart.

I still say: tell the story and get out. It would be incredibly difficult for me to lay out my entire LOST theory, but suffice it to say:

LOST is what you think it is, or what you make of it, given your economic background, your social structure, your personal or religious beliefs, etc.  It's THAT well written.  Kudos to ABC. I'll write an article on it, but the last statement says it all.  LOST has something for everyone, whether you're an physicist, an UFOologist, an homemaker, a teacher, a kid fing around on the Internet, a ditch-digger, a public safety officer....  the show has something for everyone.

What a great writing feat.....the true victory and kudos really belong to the writers, if you think about it.  To entertwine so many lifestyles of Americans, and TV viewers worldwide around one television story is amazing.  To present something intriguing for everyone and keep it going is fantastic.

My two cents worth cheers
*Des8

[LostGirlDeb]

Well said!!
......when things get too complicated for the average viewer, I always said that the writters couldn't possibly do that!! because how would the average viewer who doesn't follow message boards and easter Eggs etc..possibly understand?

But what you say makes perfect sense!! And I think you hit it right on the money!!
You can make as much or as little out of Lost as you want

Great post Des!

Miss ya
D

[Laklost]

I wonder if puff's idea that started this thread is true that

a) we've seen the Lostie's pasts so we know where they've come from

b) being on and integrating to the island was their chance at redemption

c) those who leave give up the pain of their pasts for an easier but less great life

d) those who stay take part in the colossal struggle between good and evil being waged on the island.

"We have to go back" HURTS because our real past hurts - but if we accept it, work through it, and fight for the right we will have the greater ourcome - the only example we have presently being Charlie.

[Jugdish]

In the flash forwards:

Hurley doesn't have millions,

Jack's dad is alive, and

Kate didn't blow up her step-daddy (and her first love is alive and with her now).Oh yes she did!

The island is a conduit amongst realities.  The past two episodes may be suggestive.

We know that the future is exactly what we have seen. How they get there is the mystery!