Author Topic: course correction and "shouldn't"  (Read 1619 times)

Offline mayarishi

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course correction and "shouldn't"
« on: May 25, 2007, 12:23:13 AM »
hi folks,

this is my first post and i am hoping i have not missed someone already saying this. (i believe i have been lurking here for about a year now...)

given the fact that Charlie is now dead and that this supports the course correction ideas put forth this season in the Desmond centric episode and flashbacks....

my question is:

if Jack "shouldn't do this" and they are not "supposed" to leave the island, much like Charlie was "supposed" to die (and did!), will not the universe course correct?




.... like i need another UBB to become a part of, but i could not resist after last night's episode - it was brilliant.

Offline JBRam

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Re: course correction and "shouldn't"
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2007, 12:27:17 AM »
Welcome, mayarishi!!! You'll find this is a very nice site :D

I have a feeling that it's a different meaning of "supposed" but even if not, it seemed like Jack was trying to get back to the island, right?

Offline mayarishi

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Re: course correction and "shouldn't"
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2007, 12:31:50 AM »
oh yes, i should have been more specific.

he was in fact trying to get back, and i meant perhaps the universe will course correct his butt right on back there, if in fact "supposed to" is meant in the same sense. i hardly think that scene represents the finality of this entire story. we shall see.

Offline JBRam

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Re: course correction and "shouldn't"
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2007, 12:34:28 AM »
oh yes, i should have been more specific.

he was in fact trying to get back, and i meant perhaps the universe will course correct his butt right on back there, if in fact "supposed to" is meant in the same sense. i hardly think that scene represents the finality of this entire story. we shall see.
Au contraire, I believe the Flash Forward was the Beginning of another story!

Offline puff6962

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Re: course correction and "shouldn't"
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2007, 01:38:19 AM »
hi folks,

this is my first post and i am hoping i have not missed someone already saying this. (i believe i have been lurking here for about a year now...)

given the fact that Charlie is now dead and that this supports the course correction ideas put forth this season in the Desmond centric episode and flashbacks....

my question is:

if Jack "shouldn't do this" and they are not "supposed" to leave the island, much like Charlie was "supposed" to die (and did!), will not the universe course correct?




.... like i need another UBB to become a part of, but i could not resist after last night's episode - it was brilliant.

I think that you have to be a little more specific about an individual's fate in the universe.  Ms. Hawking (ring lady) told Desmond that the guy in red sneakers would die one way or perhaps another.  She also informed Desmond that he would never be a great man unless he was on the island ready to turn the fail-safe key.  When he took a different course, it is implied that was pushed back on track.

If one's fate is to be a plumber and that can be done either on or off of the island, then fate really has no pull in keeping that person stranded there.

If, on the other hand, one's cancer or paralysis will return with a departure, then fate is certainly magnetizing such an individual to this locale.

Most of the characters fit in the middle....Sun/Jin should stay because Mr. Kwon will hunt them down, their love will again fade, and Jin won't have a high sperm count.....but EVERY character of Lost has been shown to have some fate that required being upon the island.

This ambiguity towards the island is what will be explored as the show evolves and the issue of coming or going is placed before each character. 

Offline mayarishi

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Re: course correction and "shouldn't"
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2007, 01:52:10 AM »
interesting distinction you make.

i guess i am having a hard time swallowing the desolation of that last scene. i mean, he does come off like a pompous ass, but i do think he attempts to do the right thing.

that is what makes this show so wonderful to me - the humanity of it... we all walk around doing what we feel is the "right" thing, just as do Locke, Jack, Kate, and even Ben. looking forward to this picture getting larger.

Offline WhatThe

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Re: course correction and "shouldn't"
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2007, 03:31:35 AM »
if Jack "shouldn't do this" and they are not "supposed" to leave the island, much like Charlie was "supposed" to die (and did!), will not the universe course correct?

I think Desmond's "Shouldn't" and "Not supposed to" comments are based on his seeing the future and knowing what the universe has in store...while Jack's "shouldn't" and "not supposed to" comments seem based more in reflection on the past and feeling regret/guilt. The universe wouldn't course correct simply because we regret something that's occurred or see things more clearly in hindsight...

Offline Sweet Old Lady

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Re: course correction and "shouldn't"
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2007, 03:37:22 AM »
Another character with a lot of shoulds and supposed to's is Locke.  In his case the island makes the rules for him and that's his Fate.

Offline surfmadpig

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Re: course correction and "shouldn't"
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2007, 06:18:23 AM »
I believe that Locke's shouldn't is quite different for Desmond. Locke does not predict the future, he merely knows more things - or is wiser - because of his spiritual bond with the island. I doubt Locke has been havign flashes, he just knows they should not get off the island yet.

Offline CurtYanko

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Re: course correction and "shouldn't"
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2007, 09:35:42 AM »
I think the original assertion in this thread is an excellent point. Let me take another angle here.

We all know Evangiline Lily wants off the show yet we see her 'off the island' having been rescued and my initial thought is that we got a glimpse at the end of the series and now they can't kill her. But... like another thread mentioned, maybe they get rescued sooner and I'm guessing that not everyone is going to leave (I submit Daniel's bit of exposition as evidence when she says she will not leave the island). So... when Locke's says 'you shouldn't ' perhaps he knows of Jack's role in helping the island down the line. Jack leaves as do most of our Losties (virtually all) but the island is tugging at him relentlessly and he does return after taking a season (more or less) off.

The battle for the island continues, we get cast turnover and Evangiline gets to leave the show without dying leaving open the possibility of her return. We get new characters, like Jeremy Bentham, or people from the not-penny's-boat and the show goes on while solving some of the major production headaches of this style/brand of tv. Ultimately the cast gets smaller combined with a shortened production season to drive down production cost while the actors and the studio have a good framework for contracts.

Offline laklost

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Re: course correction and "shouldn't"
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2007, 11:34:46 AM »
hi folks,

this is my first post and i am hoping i have not missed someone already saying this. (i believe i have been lurking here for about a year now...)

given the fact that Charlie is now dead and that this supports the course correction ideas put forth this season in the Desmond centric episode and flashbacks....

my question is:

if Jack "shouldn't do this" and they are not "supposed" to leave the island, much like Charlie was "supposed" to die (and did!), will not the universe course correct?




.... like i need another UBB to become a part of, but i could not resist after last night's episode - it was brilliant.

I think that you have to be a little more specific about an individual's fate in the universe.  Ms. Hawking (ring lady) told Desmond that the guy in red sneakers would die one way or perhaps another.  She also informed Desmond that he would never be a great man unless he was on the island ready to turn the fail-safe key.  When he took a different course, it is implied that was pushed back on track.

If one's fate is to be a plumber and that can be done either on or off of the island, then fate really has no pull in keeping that person stranded there.

If, on the other hand, one's cancer or paralysis will return with a departure, then fate is certainly magnetizing such an individual to this locale.

Most of the characters fit in the middle....Sun/Jin should stay because Mr. Kwon will hunt them down, their love will again fade, and Jin won't have a high sperm count.....but EVERY character of Lost has been shown to have some fate that required being upon the island.

This ambiguity towards the island is what will be explored as the show evolves and the issue of coming or going is placed before each character.  

Thanks Puff6962.

That last sentence of yours isn't a catch marketing phrase ("Next week let's see if the AMBIGUITY TOWARD THE ISLAND WILL BE FURTHER EXPLORED ALONG WITH THE ISSUE OF 'SHOULD WE STAY OR SHOULD WE GO'?"),

but you have succinctly summarized where we are in the storyarch.

And frankly, even if the marketing people screw up (5 deaths???? Ryan the goon counts????? Spare me.), we are all watching unfold one of the most important stories of our generation.

That last sentence