Author Topic: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....  (Read 2877 times)

Offline quick127

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 191
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2007, 07:09:10 PM »
I've never felt much concern over the structure of LOST.  In fact... I welcomed the new style of story telling.  Overwhelming me with question after question... giving me the ability to try and tie threads together and predict the direction of things.  I understand how a show that deviates so far from the norm - seasons structured to end sensibly, things tied up in a pretty bow... that sort of thing.

I think the reason that this debate persists is that, on the whole, the television viewing populace do not turn on the TV to think.  They turn it on to relax and shut off the brain.  A show that is designed around pervasive mysteries and questions does not fit this norm.  If I were given creative licence over LOST back at the beginning, knowing the direction that the producers and writers wanted to go... giving them the chance to explain it to me and do things as they wanted... I think I still would have wanted it to go as it has.

But... hindsight is 20/20.  I just hate seeing people talk bad about the writers, though this isn't the case here, because they DON'T know what the writers are doing.  I feel that the writers do.  In fact... Expose shows that they put little things in there throughout... with hidden significance.  I don't think Expose was a way for them to tie up screw ups.  I think it was a slap in the face to people who don't believe in them.

Offline lostfan777

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1477
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2007, 12:19:41 AM »
I just hate seeing people talk bad about the writers, though this isn't the case here, because they DON'T know what the writers are doing.  I feel that the writers do.  In fact... Expose shows that they put little things in there throughout... with hidden significance.  I don't think Expose was a way for them to tie up screw ups.  I think it was a slap in the face to people who don't believe in them.

Actually, Lindelof (I think it was him, not Cuse) just stated in an interview that they introduced Nikki and Paolo because fans kept asking why the story only centered on a dozen survivors and wanted to know who the rest were.  After the fans reacted so negatively to N & P (where did they come from?) they decided to kill them off in dramatic fashion.  I think he said, "You wanted them dead?  There you go."

Offline quick127

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 191
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2007, 01:15:50 PM »
Oh, I know why they introduced and killed them off... but I think their story was going to be the same no matter what.  The flashbacks on the island involving them showed that their seemingly insignificant actions would actually end up being important.  Given the opportunity, I think these things would have been revealed slowly, instead of all lumped into a single episode.

I think that episode served the purposes both of killing off disliked characters, and of showing that they know what they are doing.  They used it not only to please the fans, but to please themselves.

Offline FeelLikeANut

  • Background Extra
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2007, 01:24:02 PM »
Quote
I think the reason that this debate persists is that, on the whole, the television viewing populace do not turn on the TV to think.  They turn it on to relax and shut off the brain.  A show that is designed around pervasive mysteries and questions does not fit this norm.
You may be right about the viewing populace on the whole, but that's not true of me. My favorite shows have been ones that ask the hard questions and then leave it to the viewers to decided the answer for themselves.

It's not the existence of mysteries that's the problem. It's that those mysteries are dragged on, even long after our curiosity has turned into frustration. The majority of the mysteries from the very beginning haven't even played any role in the story yet -- Adam and Eve, Walt's powers, Aaron, voices in the jungle, the sickness, the numbers, even the hatch (Swan station) has fallen by the wayside now.

Obviously the writers are putting lots of thought and care into when and how we get answers. But I think they needed to put just as much thought and care into when and how we got the questions.

Offline quick127

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 191
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2007, 04:24:27 PM »
Forgive me if I seemed to be lumping you in with that statement, that was not my intent.  As for your examples, you are correct that some of them cannot be explained, but I think some of them involve a connecting the dots sort of induction.

Adam and Eve, I agree, have yet to be explained - I have thought that they are perhaps former dharma employees.  The black light painting on the blast door in the hatch mentions the grave site of a Hanso - though it placed in near the black rock.  But - that means other have been buried there before, so it isn't a complete stretch.

Walt's powers I truly have no thoughts on, but I don't think they will be explained using the character.  I think we will discover something more involving the children on the island, find that these sorts of 'powers' are more common place than we may expect.  I don't think the Walt that talked to Locke was really Walt.

The voices in the jungle were always inferred to be the Others, watching, plotting, deciding what to do next.  Rouseau said as much.  Granted, that may not be the case, but I think if it is never explained otherwise - then that's what the voices were.

I've always thought that the sickness as Desmond and those before him knew it was a hoax - this was shown when Desmond finally left the hatch.  The counter-example here would be Rouseau's compatriots.  We don't know how many years ago the 'purge' took place.  Maybe Rouseau, with her pregnancy, did not wander as far inland as everyone else on her ship did.  Maybe the others on her ship got close enough to the gas that they eventually died.

The numbers were explained in the LOST experience last summer.  Though you're right, it hasn't happened in the context of the show yet.

I feel like the Swan station was explained.  We were led to believe that it was a psychological experiment when they went back to the Pearl... but then they found all the journals from the Pearl in the jungle - IT was the psych experiment.  The Swan Station was doing what its inhabitants thought they were doing - controlling an electromagnetic abnormality.


Now yeah... all that I just did was my interpretation of things.  Some of which seems a logical conclusion, so of which is just more speculation.  I think the main thing to keep in mind is that some of the mysteries are not being explained because they're going to be implicated in other stories on the island.  Rouseau's compatriots and the 'sickness.'  Walt and the other children.  Again... sepculation on behalf, but we shall see, as always.

Offline LostAndSeek

  • DHARMA Work Man (or Woman)
  • *****
  • Posts: 4275
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2007, 05:38:06 PM »


The voices in the jungle were always inferred to be the Others, watching, plotting, deciding what to do next.  Rouseau said as much.  Granted, that may not be the case, but I think if it is never explained otherwise - then that's what the voices were.

I've always thought that the sickness as Desmond and those before him knew it was a hoax - this was shown when Desmond finally left the hatch.  The counter-example here would be Rouseau's compatriots.  We don't know how many years ago the 'purge' took place.  Maybe Rouseau, with her pregnancy, did not wander as far inland as everyone else on her ship did.  Maybe the others on her ship got close enough to the gas that they eventually died.

The numbers were explained in the LOST experience last summer.  Though you're right, it hasn't happened in the context of the show yet.

I feel like the Swan station was explained.  We were led to believe that it was a psychological experiment when they went back to the Pearl... but then they found all the journals from the Pearl in the jungle - IT was the psych experiment.  The Swan Station was doing what its inhabitants thought they were doing - controlling an electromagnetic abnormality.


Interesting stuff, Quick.

I don't think the voices are the Others. I think they're related to Smokie. The transcripts of the whispers seem to imply that the voices have pretty intimate knowledge of our Losties. Stuff they're only likely to know if they've read some memories.

I'm guessing the sickness was a hoax too, or is tied into the gas as you suggest. I am not sure whether Rousseau's comrades were really sick. Wild guess: They may have decided to join the Hostiles (go native as it were) and Rousseau felt threatened by them. She shot them, yes, so I think this explains the folks with bullet holes in the Dharma pit.

I'd be surprised if the numbers explanation follows the one from the game, but could be.

I agree with the ? station being the experiment, but I don't think we've seen the last of the Swan station yet. Still have to explain the very strong magnetic field behind that concrete wall. It's just speculation again but my money's on some powerful Tesla coil.



Offline FeelLikeANut

  • Background Extra
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2007, 07:56:50 PM »
Quote
The voices in the jungle were always inferred to be the Others, watching, plotting, deciding what to do next.
No offense, but there's no chance those whispers were the Others. There never was a chance. Did you think the Others were hiding in the tree tops like the men of Sherwood forest, whispering to each other? A real whisper couldn't even be heard from that far away. Usually someone whispers to you from within a few feet. So these whispers always seemed to be another supernatural something. Either way, it was a mystery introduced very early and then forgotten about for 2 1/2 years, just like so many others.

Quote
I've always thought that the sickness as Desmond and those before him knew it was a hoax - this was shown when Desmond finally left the hatch.  The counter-example here would be Rouseau's compatriots.
Having both examples and counter-examples means we really don't know what's up with this alleged sickness.

Quote
The numbers were explained in the LOST experience last summer.  Though you're right, it hasn't happened in the context of the show yet.
Yes, the numbers have not been explained in the show, where they ultimately must be. It also doesn't explain Hurley's cursed-ness.

Quote
I feel like the Swan station was explained.... The Swan Station was doing what its inhabitants thought they were doing - controlling an electromagnetic abnormality.
Abnormality. That's a word we use when we have no clue what something is. What was it before the Swan was put there? What did it do when the hatch imploded? (Something abnormal enough to induce time travel.) What was "the incident"? Why did Walt (or maybe Smoky) say the button was bad?

If you think about it, all we really learned was that it's not a hoax. That's it.

Offline quick127

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 191
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2007, 08:14:26 PM »
Mmmkay... first off, I'm gonna go ahead and ask you to calm down a bit.  I'm not posting in this thread to attack you or anyone else, and I would appreciate the same courtesy.  Debunking everything I say isn't giving me my fair due.

I am in no way trying to debunk everything YOU say, which is why I flat out admitted that everything I'm saying is generally speculation.

Season 3 was about taking a shift into the supernatural... but maybe supernatural elements have been around all along.  As in the whispers.  Maybe they aren't the others... ok.  But maybe there exists places on the island where sound carries better.  I recall hearing of something where there is a spot in a national landmark where you can hear just about anything being said in the room, no matter the volume, as though it was being said to you.

You're right, these things still having been explained in the context of the show.  But I think being patient is just fine.  I also think finding every possible thing that hasn't been explained from season 1 would net you a lot more trouble than its worth.  The fact of the matter is... no one who posts in a forum (unless the producers and writers themselves do it from time to time) has creative control over LOST.

Everything I say is speculation... everything you say is an ideal for you.  LOST wouldn't be having the success it is (albeit stymied by a new timeslot and over critical, impatient viewers (not referring to YOU specifically)) if people were over concerned with the mystery of the show.  Because they'd spend too much time obsessing over unanswered questions.

As to your definition of abnormality... it doesn't mean something we can't explain, it means something that does not fit a standard.  Down's Syndrome can be explained.  It is in the realm of Abnormal Psychology.  It is, by definition, an abnormality - but it is also, by definition, explained as a 3 chromatid on the 21st chromosome.

Yes... that above paragraph was me being kind of a jerkface.  But... I'm a psych major... so I really hate when that word gets used incorrectly or is interpreted incorrectly.

The Electromagnetic abnormality is abnormal, because its size and power outdo the standard.  But places like this do occur naturally.  Electromagnetism is outside of my complete understanding... but the Earth has a giant one - it makes the poles, and a functioning compass.

Offline FeelLikeANut

  • Background Extra
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2007, 12:25:39 AM »
I didn't mean to come off like I was attacking. Sorry. I've become so irritated with this show that I think it rubs off here.

Offline quick127

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 191
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2007, 02:01:24 AM »
Yeah... no worries... I also tend to be over sensitive when it comes to LOST because I have friends who won't even give the show a chance because they don't like the lack of answers.

I can understand how lack of answers to big, lasting questions can burn on people who take the time to put stock in the show - its one of the main reasons (I think), along with the later time slot, that ratings dipped last season.

I dunno... I think one of the reasons its never gotten to me is that I watched an entire season and a half in 4 days to catch up during season 2 (Pilot through Maternity Leave)... so I never had really had to time to stop and think about things that far back - I just took them as they were, and since they were so fresh in my mind they didn't seem like lost standing unanswered questions.

Offline FeelLikeANut

  • Background Extra
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2007, 01:45:52 PM »
Quote
I think one of the reasons its never gotten to me is that I watched an entire season and a half in 4 days to catch up during season 2 (Pilot through Maternity Leave)... so I never had really had to time to stop and think about things that far back
lol... I did almost exactly the same! I came on board to this show when season 2 was just starting to air. I got to watch all of season 1 and a portion of season 2 back-to-back. And those arbitrary cliffhangers I was talking about before (the kind of cliffhanger that's resolved in the first 3 minutes of the next episode, sometimes just finishing a person's sentence) seemed so much more fun when I could go straight to the next episode.

But now, for the rest of season 2 and all of season 3, I had to wait at least a full week to see how it's resolved. The anticipation grows during that time, and I start thinking to myself, "This better turn into something good." But it rarely does. Those cliffhangers started to become a letdown rather than an excitement. Like Jack's "What would it take to raise an army?"

And that is the fundamental problem I have with LOST. The story is good, but I think the structure is bad. It's not like a book where you can read straight through the night if you were really into it. With LOST, we're forced to wait weeks and months and years.

The 4400 and the new BSG are both going into their 4th season. I love those shows, and I've also never become agitated with them as I have with LOST. Those shows seem to recognize the medium through which they are telling their stories. For the most part, each episode in those shows can stand on its own, and yet is also a logical sequel to the one before. And the mysteries and plot threads in those shows don't go for much more than about a season before being resolved. And when they are, they're replaced with new mysteries and plot threads. (Usually the new mysteries and plots logically follow from the resolution of the old ones.)

I could keep rambling, but you get the idea. When it comes to a weekly TV show... arbitrary cliffhangers, bad; logical sequels, good.  :P
« Last Edit: June 16, 2007, 01:49:45 PM by FeelLikeANut »

Offline quick127

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 191
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2007, 02:32:02 PM »
Yeah, I don't what it is for me with LOST.  I can't get enough of it... watching or talking about it... so I guess the cliffhangers and unresolved questions never really get old to me.. because I talk to friends about them often enough (maybe once every two weeks).

I watch the 4400, too.  I have from the start... yet for some reason I don't hold that show in as high a regard.  I don't know why.  I enjoy it, for sure.  But somehow I find it, on the whole, too predictable.  I only ever get left with my jaw unhinged at season finales.

Offline FeelLikeANut

  • Background Extra
  • *
  • Posts: 58
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2007, 06:11:35 PM »
Quote
I only ever get left with my jaw unhinged at season finales.
I actually think that's the way it needs to be. A show needs to spend some time establishing a status quo, to get the viewers to think they know what to expect. And that's when you blow the expectations. Find the one thing no one thinks you're ever going to do, or the one character no one think you're ever going to kill. (Set 'em up, knock 'em down.) Those are the powerful finales. (But it doesn't need to be just the finale. Two or three of those super powerful episodes per season is about right, I think.)

LOST has had so many cliffhangers that fizzled out and went nowhere that I just don't get excited about them anymore.

Offline LostAndSeek

  • DHARMA Work Man (or Woman)
  • *****
  • Posts: 4275
    • View Profile
Re: If I Had Creative Control Over Lost....
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2007, 09:24:16 PM »
Well, I think you're being a little hard on the Powers FLAN. I like the idea of having a mystery set up early that might not be answered till late in the series. It stretches my mind in ways that no other tv show has ever done. In fact the only parallel I can think of in the arts is the Harry Potter series.

If you just can't wait for answers then Lost in a week to week format probably isn't for you.... That's not a putdown. It's just a recognition that tastes differ.

You mentioned the Army bit and I've heard that mentioned elsewhere as a loose end. It's not really that loose. For a couple of shows after the infamous question, Jack and Ana actively recruit people. Then Sawyer winds up with all the guns. Then the two of them get distracted by Benry. Then Michael kills Ana. Kinda hard to train an army when you don't have any ordnance and your General's dead.