Author Topic: Self-fulfilling Prophecy  (Read 2548 times)

Offline FeelLikeANut

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Self-fulfilling Prophecy
« on: May 22, 2007, 01:58:59 AM »
If Desmond never told Charlie about the latest flash, would Charlie still have volunteered to go to The Looking Glass?

Offline Sweet Old Lady

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Re: Self-fulfilling Prophecy
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2007, 02:36:54 AM »
I think he would have stayed by Claire and Aaron.  But he would have been dead long ago.  Charlie has cheated death more times than anyone, I'll bet.

Offline FeelLikeANut

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Re: Self-fulfilling Prophecy
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2007, 03:35:28 AM »
It doesn't seem odd that for Desmond to change the future that he saw, all he had to do was forget he saw it? Has it always been this way? If Desmond never put a big, metal pole in the ground, would lightning still have struck?

Offline Sweet Old Lady

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Re: Self-fulfilling Prophecy
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2007, 07:27:13 AM »
Good question.  And when Claire was drowning, Charlie and Des were too far away for Charlie to have heard her call for help.  He therefore wouldn't have tried to save her.  I have half a notion that Desmond's flashes aren't about saving Charlie so much as saving Claire.  She was in the flash about the lightening, drowning, and the birds, too.  It was Desmond who caused Charlie to be involved with the drowning and birds.  I'm confused about Desmond's flashes, but I think he has a good heart.  Maybe whatever is giving him the flashes is manipulating him and he doesn't realize it.  Like I say, I'm confused.

Offline jec9000

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Re: Self-fulfilling Prophecy
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2007, 11:28:39 AM »
I think Desmond has a larger role in the scheme than we might realize.  He may be the wild card factor in the time/space scenario of the fate of Craphole Island.  I think Mrs Hawking was trying to convince Des of the futility of trying to change the outcome but she was really fearful that he Could change it and was trying to dissuade him from any kind of free thought on the subject.  Actually, she did say if he changed the future "we" would all be dead, whoever she was referring to as "we". (my thought, original native others a la Richard Alpert) but she wanted him to think "we" as in the world so he would be afraid and stay in line.

Back to the subject of the thread, I think that Desmond and Charlie had to form a bond and yes, it was a self fulfilling prophecy in a sense.  Another poster said that Charlie would never have volunteered to swim to the Looking Glass if Des hadn't gained his trust from earlier experiences.

Offline DizzyIzzy

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Re: Self-fulfilling Prophecy
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2007, 01:43:48 PM »
Good question.  And when Claire was drowning, Charlie and Des were too far away for Charlie to have heard her call for help.  He therefore wouldn't have tried to save her.  I have half a notion that Desmond's flashes aren't about saving Charlie so much as saving Claire.  She was in the flash about the lightening, drowning, and the birds, too.  It was Desmond who caused Charlie to be involved with the drowning and birds.  I'm confused about Desmond's flashes, but I think he has a good heart.  Maybe whatever is giving him the flashes is manipulating him and he doesn't realize it.  Like I say, I'm confused.

I'm with you.  I don't think Charlie has been cheating his own death.  Most times he never would have been involved in the situation that would lead to his death.  I want to trust Desmond because he keeps saying why don't you trust me, but my gut says he's up to something or has very narrow visions in his flashes.

Offline mexicotime

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Re: Self-fulfilling Prophecy
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2007, 02:05:49 PM »
I believe that Desmond missunderstands some of the flashes. Just because Charlie didn't take an arrow to the neck doesn't mean that Naomi landed instead of Penny. What Desmond sees are flashes not a whole story. If you see a picture of someone halfway in/out of a chair are they about to sit down or are they trying to stand up? Desmond sees his flashes and interprets them one way, not because he chooses to but because he believes that to be the meaning. Remember what he has gone through over the past few years...my mind would turn to Swiss cheese also.

Offline puff6962

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Re: Self-fulfilling Prophecy
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2007, 06:01:38 PM »
Very good point.  This dilemma was written about in Stephen King's The Dead Zone. 

Observation is intervention and intervention can be in line with the course of the universe our counter to it.

What Desmond sees is a possible future, what King termed the Dead Zone, basically an illuminated corridor when all others remain dark.  These other options exist, but are not known.  How Desmond acts upon his knowledge will influence which corridor is chosen....but, by the information provided by Ms. Hawking (ring lady), ALL CORRIDORS WILL LEAD TO THE SAME OUTCOME.

Now, the words of Ms. Hawking are tremendously naive.  When Desmond tells Charlie that it doesn't matter what he does, you're goin' to die....that only takes into account one event:  Charlie's death.  Charlie has done so many things since Desmond's lightning rod that the universe is undoubtedly different than it would have been with an earlier death.  So, ya, the universe is course correcting and Charlie will probably die, but how will the universe correct for all of the actions of Charlie that have occurred since his first skirting of death.

The fact that all of Desmond's visions center around the death of Charlie is also peculiar.  Why not have flashes about Kate (naked)?  I take this to infer that Charlie's death was sentinel in splitting the course of reality from its path some time back.

If you really think about it, Charlie could have overdosed while the plane was taxiing in Sydney.  That would have put them behind schedule for a couple of hours and meant that the plane would have crash near Fiji.  Charlie was almost hit by the serving cart as the plane was in turbulence.  If he weren't snorting heroin in the bathroom, it would have been him that got plucked out of the nose of the airplane by the monster.  If Jack hadn't saved him, he was snared on the ground in front of the monster.  Ethan tried to hang him.  He should have OD'd on the Mary statue heroin.  The hatch should have killed him but Desmond did the fail safe thingy. Lightning.  Water.  Rocks.  Arrows.

Charlie's death, for some reason, is KEY.  For Desmond's visions to focus on the little buggar, something must be up.  Will there be a frame shift mutation back to an original reality following his demise?  How can the other losties surviving coincide with the words of Ms. Hawking?

If the universe is course correcting, we have to have a reference point.  Since each individual represents an additional story, and a reality, how will the universe course correct for each of them?  Do you see the paradox?

Only if Charlie's death is pivotal can I see the logic in spending so much airtime on his fate and the miraculous visions of Desmond.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2007, 08:39:44 PM by puff6962 »