Author Topic: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite  (Read 11254 times)

Offline Blitz Wing

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2007, 02:26:31 AM »
I get what you're saying.  The only thing I wanted to point out is that in Season One when it was time to take down their first Other it was Jack who had him down on the ground.  I only remember that moment because it was the first time I liked Jack.  Not only was he a healer/doctor, but he was willing to break his hand on the Enemy's face.  I know Charlie actually killed Ethan -- but Jack stopped him.  He wasn't willing to just stand around and wait to stitch him up!

I don't remember if Jack was going to beat the crap out of Ethan.......from what I recall, I think Jack was going to question Ethan, but Charlie shoots up Ethan before he could. I can't see Jack abusing Ethan that much even if Charlie didn't kill Ethan.

If it was me though, I would have gotten Sayid to torture the crap out of Ethan for info and then bury Ethan. Ethan killed Scott (or was it Steven.....a Lostie on the Beach for no reason but to instill fear), he tried to hang Charlie, and he kidnapped Claire. Probably what does it for it me is Ethan killing Scott/Steven. But regardless, my point being.....I still don't think Jack would have abused Ethan too much if he was captured. But for some weird reason, he wants to blow up all the Others now.

Oh yeah, blowing up the Tree to show the other Losties his plan was stupid too. Yeah like there's no possibility of the Others seeing or hearing the explosion right? Real smart Jack.  ::)

Offline DizzyIzzy

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2007, 01:51:38 PM »
I think blowing up the tree was for dramatic effect in the storytelling.  Seems like some things are heard by the others and other stuff is not. 

Most people aren't born leaders, people like being liked too much and for the most part a leader is respected, but not always liked.  Something has made Jack very very angry.  Or maybe it is the island that leads so many people to kill.  There has been a tremendous amount of murder on this island and for the most part the killing is done not in a life/death situation, but more for the sake of revenge or personal gain.  It's almost just expected for me.

We can't like or even embrace every character or it would be a very boring story.

Offline Geronimo Jackson

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2007, 02:02:23 PM »
I get what you're saying.  The only thing I wanted to point out is that in Season One when it was time to take down their first Other it was Jack who had him down on the ground.  I only remember that moment because it was the first time I liked Jack.  Not only was he a healer/doctor, but he was willing to break his hand on the Enemy's face.  I know Charlie actually killed Ethan -- but Jack stopped him.  He wasn't willing to just stand around and wait to stitch him up!

I don't remember if Jack was going to beat the crap out of Ethan.......from what I recall, I think Jack was going to question Ethan, but Charlie shoots up Ethan before he could. I can't see Jack abusing Ethan that much even if Charlie didn't kill Ethan.

If it was me though, I would have gotten Sayid to torture the crap out of Ethan for info and then bury Ethan. Ethan killed Scott (or was it Steven.....a Lostie on the Beach for no reason but to instill fear), he tried to hang Charlie, and he kidnapped Claire. Probably what does it for it me is Ethan killing Scott/Steven. But regardless, my point being.....I still don't think Jack would have abused Ethan too much if he was captured. But for some weird reason, he wants to blow up all the Others now.

Oh yeah, blowing up the Tree to show the other Losties his plan was stupid too. Yeah like there's no possibility of the Others seeing or hearing the explosion right? Real smart Jack.  ::)


Excellent points but ins eason one Jack was quite willing to LET Sayid torture Sawyer for the asthma medicine.

Offline misseko815

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2007, 08:06:48 PM »

Oh yeah, blowing up the Tree to show the other Losties his plan was stupid too. Yeah like there's no possibility of the Others seeing or hearing the explosion right? Real smart Jack.  ::)


Did he think Danielle had fun hauling all of the dynamite from the Black Rock all the way to the beach??? and then to use some for demonstrative effect??? Doesn't add up!!!

Offline puff6962

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2007, 08:21:15 PM »
Do you all remember Christian's conversation with his young son?

"Jack, don't choose, cause when you do you don't have what it takes."

Christian knew that his son was an idiot.

Realize that the show is built on paradoxes.....Jack wants to get off the island but he shouldn't.....Jack plans to use the SAT phone, but that may not be a good idea.....Jack loves Kate, but he shouldn't.....Jack thought his dad was a drunk, but he didn't even know his father....Jack trusts Juliet, but should he?

Jack is like one of those kid toys you punch, knock over, it flips back up, and you punch it again.  I think that his plan will quickly unravel.

Offline laklost

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #50 on: May 23, 2007, 12:47:53 AM »
I get what you're saying.  The only thing I wanted to point out is that in Season One when it was time to take down their first Other it was Jack who had him down on the ground.  I only remember that moment because it was the first time I liked Jack.  Not only was he a healer/doctor, but he was willing to break his hand on the Enemy's face.  I know Charlie actually killed Ethan -- but Jack stopped him.  He wasn't willing to just stand around and wait to stitch him up!

I don't remember if Jack was going to beat the crap out of Ethan.......from what I recall, I think Jack was going to question Ethan, but Charlie shoots up Ethan before he could. I can't see Jack abusing Ethan that much even if Charlie didn't kill Ethan.

If it was me though, I would have gotten Sayid to torture the crap out of Ethan for info and then bury Ethan. Ethan killed Scott (or was it Steven.....a Lostie on the Beach for no reason but to instill fear), he tried to hang Charlie, and he kidnapped Claire. Probably what does it for it me is Ethan killing Scott/Steven. But regardless, my point being.....I still don't think Jack would have abused Ethan too much if he was captured. But for some weird reason, he wants to blow up all the Others now.

Oh yeah, blowing up the Tree to show the other Losties his plan was stupid too. Yeah like there's no possibility of the Others seeing or hearing the explosion right? Real smart Jack.  ::)


Respectfully, Blitzwing, I ask you to go back and watch Season One Ep One called "Homecoming" -- truly one of the great Lost episodes.  Jack is all over Ethan. 

I hated the fact that they had a doctor front stage center, but he's grown on me.  I really think he has the welfare of the group in mind!

Offline Madam P

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #51 on: May 23, 2007, 01:57:22 AM »
Total waste of perfectly good and potentially useful dynamite for that stupid demonstration, and it risked giving away their plan to the Others, too.  (Why the Others don't have a scout hiding in the woods I'll never know... probably because Juliet and Naomi are the scouts... LOL!) 

Is there a "Is Jack an idiot?" poll like the ones for Juliet and Naomi being liars?   :D

Offline Sunflower

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2007, 01:59:44 AM »
Count it girl!

Offline Madam P

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2007, 02:16:49 AM »
Nah, you're the counter... maths is not my strong point...   :D

Offline Sunflower

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2007, 02:18:35 AM »
I trained Paula well *sigh*

I love that girl!  :D :-*

Offline Blitz Wing

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #55 on: May 23, 2007, 08:03:40 AM »
Respectfully, Blitzwing, I ask you to go back and watch Season One Ep One called "Homecoming" -- truly one of the great Lost episodes.  Jack is all over Ethan. 

I hated the fact that they had a doctor front stage center, but he's grown on me.  I really think he has the welfare of the group in mind!

Ah back in Season One when I liked Jack and he was respectable to me. I just watched the episode again (1x15), looks like Jack kicked the crap out of Ethan but was still upset Charlie shot Ethan up because they could have gotten info from Ethan. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if they captured Ethan. I would have loved seeing Sayid torture the crap out of Ethan, as apparently Ethan murder Scott (The Lostie on the beach) worse than I remembered (Broke all his bones in his fingers and arms before he snapped his neck. WTF? Ethanís supposed to be a surgeon.....heís more like a thug).

I think Jack was all into kicking the crap out of Ethan because he was protecting Claire, Ethan killed Scott......but mostly I got the impression that he was doing it because Jack got beat up by Ethan earlier. In the Episode Recap it showed Jack getting the crap kicked out of him by Ethan. I think this was when Ethan originally kidnapped Claire and Jack couldn't stop him. So interestingly enough I think more than anything Jack was only beating up Ethan with so much enthusiasm because he lost to Ethan in a fight earlier. Kind of like if the bully beats you up, you go and beat the snot out of the bully really good and then leave him be. I didn't get any sense of malice in Jack after he beat up Ethan, so what I'm saying is......maybe Jack wouldn't have allowed Sayid to Torture Ethan. Maybe Jack would have just done a "Keep Ben Prisoner" thing. I would have shot Ethan in the leg, you canít run away or fight effectively with a gunshot wound to the leg.

I do want to note in this Episode (1x15).....Jack running with a loaded gun at Ethan & Clare (Not very safe), Jack losing his gun just in the act of tackling Ethan (What were you thinking Jack?), Charlie gets this dropped gun and shoot Ethan. Should Ethan had gotten the dropped gun, it might have not turned out too well.

Offline Madam P

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Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2007, 03:43:16 PM »
Yet another example...  ;D

See?  I told you he was an idiot...

I'd count everybody up but I only have four toes...