Author Topic: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...  (Read 4672 times)

Offline Creflo

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Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« on: May 03, 2007, 12:18:29 PM »
...or is the test such that you have to NOT murder someone.  This would explain why Sawyer, Kate, Sayid, and virtually every other castaway was NOT tapped to join the Society of Manipulators since they've all killed someone in the past.

Tricking someone into doing your dirty work not only doesn't count against you in this regard, it's worth bonus points to The Others.

Of course, Jack hasn't killed anyone yet (as far as we know) and he's not been tapped to join...

...or has he?

Offline nothingbutsky

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2007, 12:24:35 PM »
I don't think that killing or not has anything to do with becoming an Other...I think it's different for everybody. In Locke's case it was getting rid of Locke Sr. I guess...

Offline MachThree

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2007, 12:29:29 PM »
Creflo - as far as having killed someone before or not, I think among the main losties there are a few borderline cases...  Jack, who as far as we know never directly killed anyone, but allowed Adam Rutherford (Shannon's father) to die while he tried to save Sara.  Also Hurley, who I think came closest when he accidently caused the balcony to collapse (I think some of the other people on the balcony died).  Then we have a few others besides Locke who as far as we know haven't killed anyone - Rose, Bernard, Sun, Jin, Charlie, the now dearly departed Shannon and Boone, etc. 

Offline char1

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2007, 12:30:02 PM »
...or was the point to get Locke to manipulate, (or con), someone else into killing him. 

Offline DizzyIzzy

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2007, 03:22:19 PM »
Why bring Cooper to the island.so Locke could kill him..why not just tell Locke that they had just found out that Cooper had died in a police shoot-out in Tallahasee?  Locke would be able to move on...and be whatever the Others thought he should be.  It might not be that Cooper be killed, but that Locke has to commit a sin and sacrifice his soul to be an other?

Offline Ailiu

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2007, 03:37:26 PM »
Does that mean the kidnapped tailies had to do something like that too?  Or are they not really part of the Other group? 

I find it very hard to believe that Emma and Zack (the 2 kids) would be able to kill someone or that the Others would even have them kill someone.  If those two are part of the Others proper now, it's more likely because they were adopted into the group, kind of like Alex was when she was a baby.

Offline Austruck

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2007, 05:24:50 PM »
I still find it weird that the tailies who were kidnapped initially could stand there and watch Locke try to kill his father and not be horrified by the whole experience. What has happened to these people that they're all going along with a ritual like this?

Richard had said something about people having the guise of free will in coming to the island (like Juliet, who came freely but hadn't a CLUE what she was really getting into), and that being important. But those tailies were kidnapped right off the bat. I'm surprised that there don't seem to be any "rebels" among the kidnapped tailies.

Offline PrincessLeia

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2007, 05:27:32 PM »
I still find it weird that the tailies who were kidnapped initially could stand there and watch Locke try to kill his father and not be horrified by the whole experience. What has happened to these people that they're all going along with a ritual like this?

Richard had said something about people having the guise of free will in coming to the island (like Juliet, who came freely but hadn't a CLUE what she was really getting into), and that being important. But those tailies were kidnapped right off the bat. I'm surprised that there don't seem to be any "rebels" among the kidnapped tailies.
I keep thinking about Karl.  He didn't seem to be in a position to exercise "free will" while strapped down & drugged in the brainwashing chamber. :-\

Offline firemanandlostfan

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2007, 05:34:13 PM »
I wonder when Karl will crop back up, its been like what 4 episodes since Sawyer let him go?

Offline Ailiu

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2007, 05:43:28 PM »
I still find it weird that the tailies who were kidnapped initially could stand there and watch Locke try to kill his father and not be horrified by the whole experience. What has happened to these people that they're all going along with a ritual like this?

Richard had said something about people having the guise of free will in coming to the island (like Juliet, who came freely but hadn't a CLUE what she was really getting into), and that being important. But those tailies were kidnapped right off the bat. I'm surprised that there don't seem to be any "rebels" among the kidnapped tailies.
I keep thinking about Karl.  He didn't seem to be in a position to exercise "free will" while strapped down & drugged in the brainwashing chamber. :-\
So perhaps the Tailies were brainwashed too?  I mentioned in the topic about Cindy that perhaps she was being drugged the way Claire appeared to be when she was kidnapped and at the Swan (or whatever hatch she was kept at).  Maybe that's why the Tailies are not rebeling.  Remeber Claire seemed pretty content with everything too when she was at the Swan.

Offline PrincessLeia

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2007, 05:47:11 PM »
I need to go look up that topic, but I think Cindy may have been a plant from the start.  I'll post more in the other thread, though, so as not to hi-jack this one.  lol

I don't have this season's epi's recorded, but in the building where Karl was being held, there were several other rooms, correct?  It's possible that they were all being employed for the same purpose for different people. :-\  Just thinking out loud.

Offline casino

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2007, 05:16:45 PM »
I need to go look up that topic, but I think Cindy may have been a plant from the start.  I'll post more in the other thread, though, so as not to hi-jack this one.  lol

I don't have this season's epi's recorded, but in the building where Karl was being held, there were several other rooms, correct?  It's possible that they were all being employed for the same purpose for different people. :-\  Just thinking out loud.

I think you are right.  Cindy was a plant from the start, and I believe there was at least one more crew member that was, as well.  I think the Pilot was in on it, personally.

Offline PrincessLeia

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2007, 07:44:01 PM »
I need to go look up that topic, but I think Cindy may have been a plant from the start.  I'll post more in the other thread, though, so as not to hi-jack this one.  lol

I don't have this season's epi's recorded, but in the building where Karl was being held, there were several other rooms, correct?  It's possible that they were all being employed for the same purpose for different people. :-\  Just thinking out loud.

I think you are right.  Cindy was a plant from the start, and I believe there was at least one more crew member that was, as well.  I think the Pilot was in on it, personally.
Hmmm....THAT is original & interesting.  I'll need to re-watch the scene with the pilot more critically now.

Offline TXFlyboy

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2007, 09:13:40 PM »
Didn't the pilot die.  Jack, Kate, and Charlie found the nose of the plane while looking for a radio.  Smokie yanked the pilot out and deposited his broken and bloody body in a tree.
I don't think he saw that coming.

Offline ericd543

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Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2007, 12:20:05 AM »
Why bring Cooper to the island. So Locke could kill him.. why not just tell Locke that they had just found out that Cooper had died in a police shoot-out in Tallahasee?  Locke would be able to move on...and be whatever the Others thought he should be.  It might not be that Cooper be killed, but that Locke has to commit a sin and sacrifice his soul to be an other?

What is the difference between telling Locke his dad is dead and Locke killing his dad? Quite a big difference, if you ask me.

What did Ben say? Something like "it takes a free will decision" to join (pledge? hehe) The Others? They want Locke to take the BIG step in "leaving it all behind". This sounds a lot like someone (therapist?) telling Locke to quit blaming his father for how his life turned out. Don't get into the blame game. No one can fix your problems but yourself. "Do it! You weakling!" OMG! That's a tough position to be in. I feel for Locke. He's being conned again (if you ask me). Sad... tragic, even.

I wonder if Locke suspects this is all a mind game. You would think he'd have to. I mean, how the #@$!% did his dad get to the island? What the *bleep* is with the mumbo-jumbo about being in Hell? Locke should be thinking, "From his point of view, it kinda makes sense." I mean WTF is Locke thinking?!? Is he buying it or is he skeptical? Is he a Man of Science or a Man of Faith? We were led to believe that Locke is the Man of Faith. Okay. Go.

This is wild stuff. No matter how much Locke believes in the therapeutic value of a walkabout, the question has to cross his mind... "this is some crazy shiznit!"  and, "is this for real?" and, "are these guys playing me with some of the local hallucinogenic herbal mind salve that's, like, SPROUTIN' OUT OF THE LEAVES around here on this crazy mothertruckin island?". (Boone and his trippy Shanon "imagining")

Locke is not stupid. The idea that he is "undercover" to play the Others in order to find a way to get off this island does not make sense (IMHO). He would NOT blow up the sub if that were the case. It is more likely that he's buying into the idea (being conned... AGAIN) that "he is special" and is conning James into doing what he wants him to do -- kill the Man From Tallahassee in order to give Locke "THE POWER OF THE ISLAND". w00t!

I think Locke will eventually receive the power of the Island but will be corrupted (disappointed) by what it took to be #1. That's your basic movie formula anyway... tho I hope LOST blows all that pablum away.

It should be obvious by now that this is building to a head for a *HUGE SEASON FINALE*.  I'm lovin' it! :)