Author Topic: Other Other's  (Read 8021 times)

Offline puff6962

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Other Other's
« on: April 23, 2007, 11:54:18 PM »
I hate to start a new thread, but I have been wondering about why the writer's made such a point to associate Brother Campbell with Ms. Hawking (ring lady).  Further, I have been contrasting these two, who seemingly have a connection with the island with Richard/Ethan.

Campbell/Hawking both derive their names of famous people with a debilitating disease (this pickup courtesy of matahari....kudo's).  The picture upon the monk's desk suggest that they are very familiar with one another.  They appear in roles that have held them in "the real world" for some time.  Ms. Hawking runs a clock/jewelry store, Mr. Campbell is a monk.  They are honest, lay out options, and speak of sacrifice.  Furthermore, they seem both to have knowledge of the future.

Contrast this with Ethan and Richard.  Modern, manipulative, huge money at their disposal, secretive, and mobile.  They recruit instead of guide.  (Their intent was to directly bring somebody to the island, not nudge them in the direction of their fate).  In this respect, they may not have knowledge of the future.

Is this suggestive of two groups of others....One reliant upon mental faculties/faith/sacrifice with some insight into the future while the other is material/scientific/ambitious that seeks to manipulate reality?  Does one group exist only in a spiritual form upon the island ('the whispers') while maintaining a physical presence in the real world and the other group a physical presence upon the island with excursions into the real world?

Additionally, there seems to be a growing number of references and associations between the storyline and the works of Stephen King.  The latest potential link (sorry, don't remember the poster) was to the Talisman.  I've included the paragraph that interested me here:

This book charts the adventure of a twelve year old boy named Jack (Benjamin) Sawyer. The young hero sets out from the East Coast of the USA in a bid to save his mother, who is dying from cancer, by finding an artifact called 'The Talisman'.

The premise of the novel involves the existence of a parallel world to Earth, called 'The Territories' (a strange fantasy world with ties to King's The Dark Tower). Individuals in the Territories have "twinners," or parallel individuals, in our world. Twinners' births, deaths, and (it is intimated) other major life events are usually paralleled, but in rare instances (such as Jack Sawyer's), a person may die in one world but not the other, making them a "single" and giving them the ability to switch back and forth between the two worlds if taught how.

Now, the coincidence of the names alone struck me.  Additionally, the notion of "twinners" is very interesting.  The inability of the Other's to carry a pregnancy to term may be due to the discrepancy with their "twin" off of the island.  I don't know, but if one hopes to see Christian, or even Mikail, again....this theory might have some legs.

In any event, it might explain many issues.   Going way back, it may give some insight into why Rousseau shot her companions....they passed between worlds and she didn't like what came back.  It may also explain how Ben was "born" onto the island.....Ben was just a lowly Dharma toilet cleaner and then parallel Ben took his place.  Further, it makes one wonder whether Kate may have been right when standing on the border of Otherville...."That's not Jack."  Finally, it may explain why Ben could not let any of the women leave the island.

Getting back to the original point, two groups of Others, it would seem that the group we know of as "the Others" (Ben, Tom, Ethan, Nathan.....) may largely be made up of  "singles" and incapable of making babies (and it may be the men, not the women, who are incapable of producing a viable progeny).  The problem would exist because they lack a "twin" upon which to mirror such an event. 

The "singles" are able to pass between worlds (leave the island) whereas the other Other group cannot.  They exist only in whispers upon the island but maintain a physical presence and role in the "real world."  This second group may have had some role in guiding many of the Losties to their fate.  Further, their death in the "real world" would leave open the possibility of their "single" emerging.

The duality would further allow for seemingly common people to be "great men" through the attibutes of their twin.  Thus, Locke may be "him."
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 10:27:31 AM by puff6962 »

Offline puff6962

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2007, 05:21:33 PM »
Does anyone think that Penny might be an Other?

Her comment, with enough money and determination you can find anyone, was a little out of character.  She's basically telling Desmond that she's a very refined STALKER.  I take this to suggest that she may have had some idea of Desmond's destiny, the island, and the Others.

Offline jugdish

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 05:23:19 PM »
Or she is in love.

Offline puff6962

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2007, 05:40:06 PM »
Or both.

The scotch, the birth control test, the daughter, the money.....Widmore is connected to Dharma and the island in some way and, perhaps, in directing Desmond to his fate.

Offline ILoveLost

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2007, 05:54:16 PM »
Does anyone think that Penny might be an Other?

I definitely thought this a while back but I'm not sure...could be an interesting plot twist though. I really think that Penny's father is an other though so maybe she is an other by association.  :D

Offline versed4every1

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2007, 06:05:01 PM »
My Penny theory is this:  When Desmond went back in time in Flashes, he told Donovan about the island and about the EMP that brought him back in time.  Donovan dismissed it at the time, but when Desmond did infact disappear, Donovan told PENNY what Desmond had said.  This information allowed Penny the time to set up a way to find Desmond - by searching for an EMP pulse.  Thus bringing about the late night phone call from the Portuguese men who were doing just that.  Once the coordinates of the island were known, from the location of the epicenter of the pulse, Penny used all the resources at her disposal - read helicopter, ship to carry said helicopter, and parachuting woman with Desmond's picture -  to attempt to find and rescue Desmond. 

IMHO, talking to Donovan about the island was the thing that Desmond changed when he went back in time.  That is what resonates through time and has changed what Penny has been doing for the past 3 years.

Offline Fallybear

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2007, 06:59:47 PM »
Good job Versed. It makes a lot of sense. I'm with you.

Offline puff6962

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2007, 07:48:47 PM »
You guys are starting to sound like the unifying theory of lost....alternative quantum realities, quantum windows, hot blondes....

Offline FireLily

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2007, 09:10:40 PM »
I hate to start a new thread, but I have been wondering about why the writer's made such a point to associate Brother Campbell with Ms. Hawking (ring lady).  Further, I have been contrasting these two, who seemingly have a connection with the island with Richard/Ethan.

Campbell/Hawking both derive their names of famous people with a debilitating disease (this pickup courtesy of matahari....kudo's).  The picture upon the monk's desk suggest that they are very familiar with one another.  They appear in roles that have held them in "the real world" for some time.  Ms. Hawking runs a clock/jewelry store, Mr. Campbell is a monk.  They are honest, lay out options, and speak of sacrifice.  Furthermore, they seem both to have knowledge of the future.

Contrast this with Ethan and Richard.  Modern, manipulative, huge money at their disposal, secretive, and mobile.  They recruit instead of guide.  (Their intent was to directly bring somebody to the island, not nudge them in the direction of their fate).  In this respect, they may not have knowledge of the future.

Is this suggestive of two groups of others....One reliant upon mental faculties/faith/sacrifice with some insight into the future while the other is material/scientific/ambitious that seeks to manipulate reality?  Does one group exist only in a spiritual form upon the island ('the whispers') while maintaining a physical presence in the real world and the other group a physical presence upon the island with excursions into the real world?

Additionally, there seems to be a growing number of references and associations between the storyline and the works of Stephen King.  The latest potential link (sorry, don't remember the poster) was to the Talisman.  I've included the paragraph that interested me here:

This book charts the adventure of a twelve year old boy named Jack (Benjamin) Sawyer. The young hero sets out from the East Coast of the USA in a bid to save his mother, who is dying from cancer, by finding an artifact called 'The Talisman'.

The premise of the novel involves the existence of a parallel world to Earth, called 'The Territories' (a strange fantasy world with ties to King's The Dark Tower). Individuals in the Territories have "twinners," or parallel individuals, in our world. Twinners' births, deaths, and (it is intimated) other major life events are usually paralleled, but in rare instances (such as Jack Sawyer's), a person may die in one world but not the other, making them a "single" and giving them the ability to switch back and forth between the two worlds if taught how.

Now, the coincidence of the names alone struck me.  Additionally, the notion of "twinners" is very interesting.  The inability of the Other's to carry a pregnancy to term may be due to the discrepancy with their "twin" off of the island.  I don't know, but if one hopes to see Christian, or even Mikail, again....this theory might have some legs.

In any event, it might explain many issues.   Going way back, it may give some insight into why Rousseau shot her companions....they passed between worlds and she didn't like what came back.  It may also explain how Ben was "born" onto the island.....Ben was just a lowly Dharma toilet cleaner and then parallel Ben took his place.  Further, it makes one wonder whether Kate may have been right when standing on the border of Otherville...."That's not Jack."  Finally, it may explain why Ben could not let any of the women leave the island.

Getting back to the original point, two groups of Others, it would seem that the group we know of as "the Others" (Ben, Tom, Ethan, Nathan.....) may largely be made up of  "singles" and incapable of making babies (and it may be the men, not the women, who are incapable of producing a viable progeny).  The problem would exist because they lack a "twin" upon which to mirror such an event. 

The "singles" are able to pass between worlds (leave the island) whereas the other Other group cannot.  They exist only in whispers upon the island but maintain a physical presence and role in the "real world."  This second group may have had some role in guiding many of the Losties to their fate.  Further, their death in the "real world" would leave open the possibility of their "single" emerging.

The duality would further allow for seemingly common people to be "great men" through the attibutes of their twin.  Thus, Locke may be "him."

I think I posted something about the Talisman somewhere, and the coincidence with the names... but not that particular post.

I've been really into the Dark Tower series for awhile, and just read the Talisman.  Something about your post struck something in my brain and I wanted to write it out before I forgot, and then come back and fill in with more detail later.  Also, I apologize if this repeats anything.  Like I said, I just wanted to get it out while it was somewhat tangible.


In The Dark Tower series, as well as in Hearts in Atlantis and the Talisman, King explores these multiple worlds, that are all held together by The Dark Tower.  The legend in the Dark Tower series, is something along the lines of that MAGIC once ruled the world, and spirituality, until SCIENCE came and took over.  They tried to imitate magic, but magic was the only thing that could hold the worlds together, and since science couldn't cut the mustard, everything was falling apart.

That struck me as similar to the contrast that you were talking about between Hawking/Campbell, and Richard and Ethan.  I'll have to think on it more, and see if I can dig up the actual passage that explains that.  But that's the jist of it.  Sorry if I repeated anyone again.... I'm gonna read through now and make sure I didn't.

Offline FireLily

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2007, 09:12:36 PM »
cool!  i didn't repeat anyone!!!!  ::)

Offline FireLily

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2007, 09:13:36 PM »
IMHO, talking to Donovan about the island was the thing that Desmond changed when he went back in time.  That is what resonates through time and has changed what Penny has been doing for the past 3 years.

haha sorry to post again.... just wanted to say that that makes sense!! :)

Offline therealsawyer

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2007, 09:14:47 PM »
Good call Puff.  I really think there are a lot of similarities between lost and the Dark Tower/Talisman worlds.  From the start, the way they talked about Walt my thought was "Breaker".  You also have the characters having contact in the past or feeling like they have know each other in a previus life.

"See you in another life."  "There are other worlds that these"

I see a lot of similarities between Eddie Dean and Charlie Pace.  Both are heroin addicts that got hooked by following in the footsteps of their older brothers that they looked up to.  

I also see the prevalence of Widmore and Hanso to be similar to North Central Positronics and other re-occuring companies.

Smokie is similar to the "guardians of the beam".

The Pearl Station is also similar to the place that Jake and Benny visit in "The Wolves of the Calla".

There are many other things that have struck me but these are just the ones off the top of my head.  I might need to re-read Talisman and Black House to see more.  Good catch on the names!

Sorry if this is jibberish to some but I'm a big Gunslinger fan.  I hope there are others out there!

Offline FireLily

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2007, 09:19:23 PM »
Good call Puff.  I really think there are a lot of similarities between lost and the Dark Tower/Talisman worlds.  From the start, the way they talked about Walt my thought was "Breaker".  You also have the characters having contact in the past or feeling like they have know each other in a previus life.

"See you in another life."  "There are other worlds that these"

I see a lot of similarities between Eddie Dean and Charlie Pace.  Both are heroin addicts that got hooked by following in the footsteps of their older brothers that they looked up to. 

I also see the prevalence of Widmore and Hanso to be similar to North Central Positronics and other re-occuring companies.

Smokie is similar to the "guardians of the beam".

The Pearl Station is also similar to the place that Jake and Benny visit in "The Wolves of the Calla".

There are many other things that have struck me but these are just the ones off the top of my head.  I might need to re-read Talisman and Black House to see more.  Good catch on the names!

Sorry if this is jibberish to some but I'm a big Gunslinger fan.  I hope there are others out there!

OH MY GOD DUDE!! I knew there was more, i Just KNEW it!! You are so right on all of those..... So right.  I just read the Talisman, and I'm about to reread the Dark Tower series.  I LOVE LOVE LOVE those books.  Aren't they genius?? *blushing*

Ok I'll stop now.... Puff, I really recommend those books, if you want to see some creepy connections! :)

Offline Chefpyro

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2007, 09:19:32 PM »
good-cop, bad cop, I get it. good-twin, bad-twin.<------Pyro[move]

Offline FireLily

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Re: Other Other's
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2007, 09:21:46 PM »
good-cop, bad cop, I get it. good-twin, bad-twin.<------Pyro[move]

Actually, in The Talisman, the twinners were the same on either side in personality.  They weren't opposite.  The evil guy was evil in both worlds, and the good queen was good in both worlds.  BUT only some know about the other worlds, and some suspect but never know.  And only a few can travel between the worlds.