Author Topic: What about Ben?  (Read 5985 times)

mindsparkle

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What about Ben?
« on: April 23, 2007, 03:12:06 PM »

I've been thinking a lot about Ben and have drawn no real conclusions but perhaps someone else may see something in the mix that I'm missing...  or will have more insight to share...

I think...

that Ben is a liar, Rousseau told us this at the very beginning... and he wasn't born on the island, it's another lie, has he ever said anything truthful... he made a big deal about proving to Juliet that he didn't lie and I don't understand why when she's in on most of his manipulations that require lots of lies!!

that there is no Jacob and just like the sub (oh, I believe the sub is for short distances and can not take anyone from or bring anyone to the island), Jacob is a prop used by Ben to lead his tribe... he's probably the only person that can communicate with Jacob and creates magic where none was necessary, like curing Juliet's sister, she was never sick... Ben lied and manipulated again... and why was Juliet so gullible... she knows Ben... doesn't add up.  Plus Ben has brought some brilliant people to the island and for some reason they can't see through his manipulations?  that doesn't add up either...

that Ben is probably the Degroot's son and was abandoned as a young man when the "purge" happened or his parents were killed in the purge... maybe they are the Adam and Eve?  I doubt it, though... seeing how they buried the woman that got shot by Sun...

that Ben is too smart to not be up to something meaningful... whether it's his own evil agenda to use the losties as lab specimens... which I don't believe. 

Whatever he is up to is major, even a bored lord of the island wouldn't go to these elaborate lengths to entertain himself... this major thing is either an effort to literally save the world from some thing... a virus ...and that he knows once on the island you can't ever leave... so the losties are there and Ben has to incorporate them into island life... and maybe our losties have the virus that will destroy the world... maybe they came from a dying world...  maybe the virus isn't what we typically think of as a virus... maybe it's the lack of innocence that our losties have, a way of thinking of manifesting their inappropriate decisions on the world... maybe it's mankind's lack of humane thinking??? 

okay, that's the best I can do to start a dialogue...








Offline LouE68

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2007, 04:01:42 PM »
TPTB confirmed Ben lies, "born on the island" will take a new meaning, there is a HIM-we have not seen HIM yet, but we will soon...short distances on the sub makes sense to TPTB too....

Offline Pepsi-Maxx

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 03:50:17 AM »
in the man behind the curtain episode i found this little trivia intresting on wikipedia:

The title of the episode, "The Man Behind the Curtain", is a reference to "The Wizard Of Oz" where a man behind the curtain, at the Emerald City palace, was pretending to be the Wizard so he could run Oz and also get Dorothy to do his bidding.

Your Thoughts??????

Offline snowyjoe

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2007, 06:02:17 AM »
ben.... very mysterious....have you guys seen his flashbacks yet??

i can't wait...

mindsparkle

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2007, 11:52:35 AM »
in the man behind the curtain episode i found this little trivia intresting on wikipedia:

The title of the episode, "The Man Behind the Curtain", is a reference to "The Wizard Of Oz" where a man behind the curtain, at the Emerald City palace, was pretending to be the Wizard so he could run Oz and also get Dorothy to do his bidding.

Your Thoughts??????

Hmmm... that follows my thinking that Ben is HIM and has a pretend Jacob to control his people and Dorothy, of course, seems to be our Juliet...  Ben is the man behind the curtain pulling all the strings and making magic where there is none...  nice find

Offline AstroJones

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2007, 03:07:46 PM »
my thoughts on Ben and the Others....

There were 2 groups of people living on the island when Dharma came.  All, technically, a part of dharma, but very different indeed.  On one side were the researchers.  These were the Dharma Scientists, like the DeGroots, who conducted all of the scientific experiments on the island.  The Other side were the "Work Man" group.  These were the construction workers, the network people, the cable-runners, the janitors, the mechanics, the road builders...all of the people there to support Dharma.  Ben's father was one of these men.  Roger Linus.  We've seen Roger, possibly, in the van that Hurley found, and his name tag, Roger Work Man was our clue.

The Work Man group became known as the Hostiles.  They grew more and more disgruntled with the scientists, and their "god-like" ideas and research on this mysterious island.  And then Roger made a discovery.  Some mystical quality of the island.  He connected with the island somehow, just like Locke has done and gained a great deal of insight.  Upon learning of this the Researchers began to realize the need to exterminate the work man.

For whatever reason the Purge happened.  Perhaps the Scientists realized the growing knowledge and/or connection that the Hostiles were having with the island.  But whatever the case, the Scientists of Dharma decided to purge the island of this threat, of the Hostiles.  But they under-estimated the Hostiles and their knowledge/power on the island.  The scientists lost.

Ben may or may not have actually been born on the island, though Roger Linus is his father (though not necessarily his biological father. Perhaps he, too, is like Alex).  Since the Flame station was never destroyed, even though it was ordered to be destroyed if the HOstiles took over, we can assume that the outside world may not even know about the Purge and the results it had. 

Ben's concern, for now, seems to revolved around ensuring that his people can reproduce and survive on the island.  They are trying to ensure a utopian society of sorts.  It is my feelings that they do indeed think that some end of the world may be coming, however, I'm not so sure right now that they're actually trying to stop it.

Does Ben lie?  Yes and No.  I think Ben considers himself an honest person for the most part, however he manipulates people for what he considers, "the greater good".  What he does is definitely lying, but I'm not so sure he sees it that way.  I also think that he is a smart liar, which means he tells the truth as often as he can, or at least the partial truth so that he doesn't get caught in too many lies.

I think the island may exist as a vortex or connection point to space-time and possibly even the multi-verse.

There you go, that's my mad ramblings!  ;)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 03:17:19 PM by AstroJones »

mindsparkle

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2007, 04:24:35 PM »
Good theory, I really like that and it satisfies my need to understand Ben and the others... I'm speechless.. it seems so simple, right there in front of our faces and low and behold... I agree the Roger Work Man was a clue... and this would also explain why the others don't have a full understanding of the hatches... they didn't know what the swan hatch did exactly... excellent!!  And, the food drops were kept up because the guys back home don't know anything had changed... so the others had a constant supply of food and whatever else they needed... Ben was smart enough to recruit to the island some bright people that could utilize the Dharma equipment...  I still might think that Jacob is just Ben's prop to control the masses... he's Jacob or actually there is no Jacob... it's just Ben, but that's another topic...

Offline AstroJones

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2007, 04:33:59 PM »
Yeah, I'm still a bit up in the air about Jacob.  I want to believe that he is either a real person, or a real "thing".  Like, maybe he's some crazy time-traveler dude that uses the island.  lol.  I think I just don't want to believe that Ben is Jacob.  I WANT there to be someone else more powerful.

Offline versed4every1

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2007, 05:07:56 PM »
Just for giggles:

I don't think that Jacob is a him at all.  I think that Jacob is some form of personification of the island itself that Ben had been able to gain control of - until Locke entered the picture.

Offline Ladybug

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2007, 05:18:00 PM »
i still think jacob is ben's dad.  just like in the Bible. 

it explains why everyone listens to ben and he can order everyone around, and it also explains how jacob is so powerful, he is bigger than ben.

mindsparkle

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2007, 07:11:51 PM »
Just for giggles:

I don't think that Jacob is a him at all.  I think that Jacob is some form of personification of the island itself that Ben had been able to gain control of - until Locke entered the picture.

I like this idea, too... Locke would want to free an entity that has given him so much... he'd feel compassion for it... maybe there really is a big hamster underground generating the power enslaved in Ben's web of lies... and it's Jacob the Giant Hamster...

Sorry, could resist being silly for a moment... great idea and I, too have thought if Ben isn't Jacob that I'm not sure Jacob is human...

Hi, Ladybug ;D

Offline eelpie62

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2007, 09:30:53 PM »
Of course there are ways that this information could be bent to fit a variety of plot-lines, but Televisionista lists "Jon Gries as Roger Linus" as one of the characters for Curtain.
So, we have (in a fashion) already seen Ben's dad.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2007, 09:39:59 PM by eelpie62 »

mindsparkle

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2007, 11:39:50 PM »
Yes, we know who Ben's dad is, or at least have a very good guess... wonder who his mother is?  I really like the worker-bees uprising and taking over Dharmaville and making the island their home..  Wonder what happened to the subjects, the new recruits the lab rats they show in the orientation films... did they side with Dharma or the worker bees and/or are they yet another very scared group?

Offline LouE68

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2007, 07:21:02 AM »
So I got this from spoilerfix Lost spoilers

Quote
03/27 - It looks like you'll get more action on Hurley's... van. Producers are currently casting for a "Roger," a working-class janitor in his early forties who is bitter about his place in life but has higher aspirations. The notice says of the character, "He has troubled and complex relationship with his son; he finds himself caught up in a mysterious situation beyond his imaginings; and the actor must not be claustrophobic." Pretty sure this is the skeleton — "Roger Work Man"—from Hurley's episode. Source: Kristin on E!Online

So with the thought of Roger workman being Ben's father, maybe...did Ben have problems with his father too...the reoccuring theme of father issues...did Ben kill his father too, to be accepted like he did to Locke?

Offline razzle-dazzle

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Re: What about Ben?
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2007, 08:54:26 PM »
So... does Locke wear ruby slippers? And he finds out that the man behind the curtain isn't really that powerful.

Ben is a liar and I am sure that Rousseau will make him pay. That dynomite has to be put to use, and from what I've read Ben dies this season. Might be a foiler and another major other dies.