Author Topic: Central Theme  (Read 3466 times)

Offline CurtYanko

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Central Theme
« on: April 19, 2007, 10:03:20 AM »
Every week I like to start my podcast by exploring the central theme of each episode (though they don't all actually have one). Before I say anything out loud I'd like to hear what other sledgelings have to say on this topic.

Offline versed4every1

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2007, 10:15:22 AM »
CURT!  Nice to see you! 

I would say the central theme of this episode was sacrifice.  I think the whole conversation between Desmond and the monk about Abraham and Isaac and Desmond's misunderstanding of the "test" involved, along with the whole "God has bigger plans for you ... you have spent too much time running away to realize what you may be running toward," scenes are definitely key in this episode.

Offline MaxsDad

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2007, 10:24:56 AM »
Good post Jen, I agree sacrifice is the theme!

Offline JBRam

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2007, 10:39:46 AM »
I think sacrifice is a large part of the theme... but I think it is closer to sacrifice for the greater good, if you want to split hairs. When is it worth it to sacrifice? When is sacrifice required?

Desmond spent a large part of his life "sacrificing" himself for God, but we find out in the end that he only does so to run away from the girl he was going to marry. He starts the cross-island trek because he was going to sacrifice Charlie for getting Penny, but his conscience (thankfully) gets the better of him.

He then compared this to the testing God gave Abraham, saying that he (Desmond) had failed the test.

musepsycho

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2007, 11:46:43 AM »
Great to see you here Curt! Your podcast has made me too look for the central theme of each episode. I think it makes it easier to see what the writers are intending us to learn from any given episode. A good help when you see the multitudes of theories out there, & also theories about completely irrelevant details. (...no specifics..  :-X)

For some reason I have felt for a long time that Desmond's story is very closely related to the overall story of the series & is a key character (has this been stated by the writers?). Desmond's story seems to be all about fate/determinism vs. free will, about cause & effect, as was this episode, & as does the whole show. Because of the title Catch 22 this episode had to deal with some paradox which implied a no win situation.

I was also thinking of dedication & commitment during this episode. Desmond's choices this time were about staying faithful to his calling & to his fiancée in the flashback - both at which he failed. On the island he interfered with Charlie's death in his flashes/visions. The way I saw it, he couldn't commit to his visions & sacrifice Charlie to save who he thought was Penny, so he was in a "Catch 22" where he couldn't win either way. He intended to sacrifice him, but when he stood face to face with the choice, he couldn't commit to it.

Of course, if there's a storyline dealing commitment, Kate the Runner has to be in it since she has tremendous problems with commitment. Strangely, Sawyer seems to be willing to commit to Kate - he is really changing!

In the end, I think it was all about free will vs. fate. Dedication & commitment are after all products of free will...

Looking forward to the podcast! :)

Offline kkehoe5

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2007, 11:49:39 AM »
I think the main Theme was Superman Vs. The Flash in a foot race!

Offline MaxsDad

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2007, 11:52:49 AM »
I think the main Theme was Superman Vs. The Flash in a foot race!
Superman hands down, dude!

Offline kkehoe5

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2007, 12:09:14 PM »
Nope, it's been done already and the Flash won.

Offline matahari

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2007, 12:59:08 PM »
Locke seems to understand the sacrifices to the Island. Why doesn't Des get it yet?

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2007, 01:13:13 PM »
Great to see you here Curt! Your podcast has made me too look for the central theme of each episode. I think it makes it easier to see what the writers are intending us to learn from any given episode. A good help when you see the multitudes of theories out there, & also theories about completely irrelevant details. (...no specifics..  :-X)

For some reason I have felt for a long time that Desmond's story is very closely related to the overall story of the series & is a key character (has this been stated by the writers?). Desmond's story seems to be all about fate/determinism vs. free will, about cause & effect, as was this episode, & as does the whole show. Because of the title Catch 22 this episode had to deal with some paradox which implied a no win situation.

I was also thinking of dedication & commitment during this episode. Desmond's choices this time were about staying faithful to his calling & to his fiancée in the flashback - both at which he failed. On the island he interfered with Charlie's death in his flashes/visions. The way I saw it, he couldn't commit to his visions & sacrifice Charlie to save who he thought was Penny, so he was in a "Catch 22" where he couldn't win either way. He intended to sacrifice him, but when he stood face to face with the choice, he couldn't commit to it.

Of course, if there's a storyline dealing commitment, Kate the Runner has to be in it since she has tremendous problems with commitment. Strangely, Sawyer seems to be willing to commit to Kate - he is really changing!

In the end, I think it was all about free will vs. fate. Dedication & commitment are after all products of free will...

Looking forward to the podcast! :)
i'm with you muse.  Catch-22 describes the whole thing perfectly.  it's cause and effect.  desmond WANTED to see the effect from the flashbacks he was having, even if it meant sacrificing charlie.  but there was a catch, to get the effect he wanted (penny on the island) he had to sacrifice charlie.  desmond wasn't willing to make that sacrifice, so no penny.

back at the beach we saw sawyer wanting kate, kate wanting jack, jack wanting juliet.  because JACK introduced JULIET to the beach, kate is now having to compete for jack's attention.  she's not used to that.  so she turns to sawyer for affection.  i think we will see this cause/effect play out more in the coming weeks, as juliet causes more division in the losties. 

i hope that makes sense.

Offline Geronimo Jackson

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2007, 01:49:04 PM »
Great to see you here Curt! Your podcast has made me too look for the central theme of each episode. I think it makes it easier to see what the writers are intending us to learn from any given episode. A good help when you see the multitudes of theories out there, & also theories about completely irrelevant details. (...no specifics..  :-X)

For some reason I have felt for a long time that Desmond's story is very closely related to the overall story of the series & is a key character (has this been stated by the writers?). Desmond's story seems to be all about fate/determinism vs. free will, about cause & effect, as was this episode, & as does the whole show. Because of the title Catch 22 this episode had to deal with some paradox which implied a no win situation.

I was also thinking of dedication & commitment during this episode. Desmond's choices this time were about staying faithful to his calling & to his fiancée in the flashback - both at which he failed. On the island he interfered with Charlie's death in his flashes/visions. The way I saw it, he couldn't commit to his visions & sacrifice Charlie to save who he thought was Penny, so he was in a "Catch 22" where he couldn't win either way. He intended to sacrifice him, but when he stood face to face with the choice, he couldn't commit to it.

Of course, if there's a storyline dealing commitment, Kate the Runner has to be in it since she has tremendous problems with commitment. Strangely, Sawyer seems to be willing to commit to Kate - he is really changing!

In the end, I think it was all about free will vs. fate. Dedication & commitment are after all products of free will...

Looking forward to the podcast! :)
i'm with you muse.  Catch-22 describes the whole thing perfectly.  it's cause and effect.  desmond WANTED to see the effect from the flashbacks he was having, even if it meant sacrificing charlie.  but there was a catch, to get the effect he wanted (penny on the island) he had to sacrifice charlie.  desmond wasn't willing to make that sacrifice, so no penny.

back at the beach we saw sawyer wanting kate, kate wanting jack, jack wanting juliet.  because JACK introduced JULIET to the beach, kate is now having to compete for jack's attention.  she's not used to that.  so she turns to sawyer for affection.  i think we will see this cause/effect play out more in the coming weeks, as juliet causes more division in the losties. 

i hope that makes sense.


It makes perfect sense.

Offline T Mack

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2007, 04:00:05 PM »

Quote
I was also thinking of dedication & commitment during this episode. Desmond's choices this time were about staying faithful to his calling & to his fiancée in the flashback - both at which he failed. On the island he interfered with Charlie's death in his flashes/visions. The way I saw it, he couldn't commit to his visions & sacrifice Charlie to save who he thought was Penny, so he was in a "Catch 22" where he couldn't win either way. He intended to sacrifice him, but when he stood face to face with the choice, he couldn't commit to it.

Quote
Catch-22 describes the whole thing perfectly.  it's cause and effect.  desmond WANTED to see the effect from the flashbacks he was having, even if it meant sacrificing charlie.  but there was a catch, to get the effect he wanted (penny on the island) he had to sacrifice charlie.  desmond wasn't willing to make that sacrifice, so no penny.

I agree that's what Desmond 'interpreted' from his vision.  But I'm not convinced that actually would have happened that way.  As we know with Lost, not all is as it seems most of the time.  In reality the Catch-22 was saving Charlie vs. saving himself/the Losties.  He may have interpreted it also as getting to see Penny (who I don't beleive was ever intended to be in that flight suit).  The 'rescue' that he spoke of was the copter/parachutist.  If they had not gone on the campout would they have seen (been able to find) the parachutist and possible rescue (satellite phone)?  They had to go on the campout, hence risking Charlie's life at the same time.  In the end, Desmond chose to intervene and save Charlie's life, but only AFTER all of the events were able to happen to set that sequence of events up. 

He got to have his cake and eat it too, only Penny wasn't part of the cake.

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2007, 04:13:19 PM »

Quote
I was also thinking of dedication & commitment during this episode. Desmond's choices this time were about staying faithful to his calling & to his fiancée in the flashback - both at which he failed. On the island he interfered with Charlie's death in his flashes/visions. The way I saw it, he couldn't commit to his visions & sacrifice Charlie to save who he thought was Penny, so he was in a "Catch 22" where he couldn't win either way. He intended to sacrifice him, but when he stood face to face with the choice, he couldn't commit to it.

Quote
Catch-22 describes the whole thing perfectly.  it's cause and effect.  desmond WANTED to see the effect from the flashbacks he was having, even if it meant sacrificing charlie.  but there was a catch, to get the effect he wanted (penny on the island) he had to sacrifice charlie.  desmond wasn't willing to make that sacrifice, so no penny.

I agree that's what Desmond 'interpreted' from his vision.  But I'm not convinced that actually would have happened that way.  As we know with Lost, not all is as it seems most of the time.  In reality the Catch-22 was saving Charlie vs. saving himself/the Losties.  He may have interpreted it also as getting to see Penny (who I don't beleive was ever intended to be in that flight suit).  The 'rescue' that he spoke of was the copter/parachutist.  If they had not gone on the campout would they have seen (been able to find) the parachutist and possible rescue (satellite phone)?  They had to go on the campout, hence risking Charlie's life at the same time.  In the end, Desmond chose to intervene and save Charlie's life, but only AFTER all of the events were able to happen to set that sequence of events up. 

He got to have his cake and eat it too, only Penny wasn't part of the cake.

Good point and "interpreted" his vision is a the key word.
I don't think Penny being there was ever an option except he didn't know that, wishfull thinking on his part perhaps
Originally the thing that stuck out for me was
"Sacrifice for greater cause"
But after reading all of this..... not sure anymore

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2007, 04:33:32 PM »

Quote
I was also thinking of dedication & commitment during this episode. Desmond's choices this time were about staying faithful to his calling & to his fiancée in the flashback - both at which he failed. On the island he interfered with Charlie's death in his flashes/visions. The way I saw it, he couldn't commit to his visions & sacrifice Charlie to save who he thought was Penny, so he was in a "Catch 22" where he couldn't win either way. He intended to sacrifice him, but when he stood face to face with the choice, he couldn't commit to it.

Quote
Catch-22 describes the whole thing perfectly.  it's cause and effect.  desmond WANTED to see the effect from the flashbacks he was having, even if it meant sacrificing charlie.  but there was a catch, to get the effect he wanted (penny on the island) he had to sacrifice charlie.  desmond wasn't willing to make that sacrifice, so no penny.

I agree that's what Desmond 'interpreted' from his vision.  But I'm not convinced that actually would have happened that way.  As we know with Lost, not all is as it seems most of the time.  In reality the Catch-22 was saving Charlie vs. saving himself/the Losties.  He may have interpreted it also as getting to see Penny (who I don't beleive was ever intended to be in that flight suit).  The 'rescue' that he spoke of was the copter/parachutist.  If they had not gone on the campout would they have seen (been able to find) the parachutist and possible rescue (satellite phone)?  They had to go on the campout, hence risking Charlie's life at the same time.  In the end, Desmond chose to intervene and save Charlie's life, but only AFTER all of the events were able to happen to set that sequence of events up. 

He got to have his cake and eat it too, only Penny wasn't part of the cake.
i don't think desmond was trying to save himself or the losties, i think his whole agenda was seeing penny. 

Offline T Mack

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Re: Central Theme
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2007, 05:13:12 PM »
Quote
i don't think desmond was trying to save himself or the losties, i think his whole agenda was seeing penny. 
I disagree, a big deal was made about 'rescue'.  Des's description to the group was 'someone is coming'.  While his agenda may have been seeing Penny, getting rescued was part of the package.