Author Topic: Take me down to paradox city  (Read 10334 times)

Offline Wishbone

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Re: Take me down to paradox city
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2007, 03:35:51 PM »
Desmond is inadvertently changing things by making them follow the same path - if his visions are real visions into the future then he wouldn't have needed to gather the right people together and take them to the cable etc.... All of these things would have happenned anyway so I think his interference is unnecessary really. Either he doesn't grasp this or he's trying to change the future. His behaviour does kind of confuse me.

Offline Creflo

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Re: Take me down to paradox city
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2007, 05:09:06 PM »
No one (even in fiction) can have a "vision of the future".  By that I mean that these characters could only see likely outcomes based on events outside of their influence.  Accurate visions of the past?  Sure.  But if someone sees something coming that they can change, it's not a vision of the future.

The parachutist was coming, and Desmond saw one possible way that he could find her.

Also, it's not a Catch-22 per se.  The episode has the title because the featured book has the title.  She probably was reading the book because it pertains to pilots and not because it would have some significance to her mission and I don't think it was placed in there by TPTB as an allusion to Desmond's dilemma.

Also, people are misunderstanding the meaning of a "Catch 22".  It's not so much a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't situation.  It's more of a circular logic predicament.

From the book:
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to.

Not Catch-22:
- Charlie has to die for the party to get "rescued"

potential made-up Catch-22:
- For an Other to leave The Island he must have his mind right and completed his training.  Having his mind right means knowing that The Island is where he belongs and he should never leave.  If he asks to leave, his training must not be complete so he's sent to Room 23 for reprogramming.

Offline puff6962

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Re: Take me down to paradox city
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2007, 05:23:55 PM »
Let's assume that what Desmond is seeing is not "visions" at all, but instructions from the island.  Desmond doesn't really know what to do with the things he sees....

Assume first that what the Ring lady said was true....the universe is course correcting.  So, the little mushroom sitter (Charlie) is going to die anyway.  If that's the case, then why even waste Desmond's time with the vision?

I would offer another take on the whole Catch-22 and Abraham metaphors.  Desmond receives the visions as a form of instruction.  The island is asking him to do something.  That something is to delay the death of Charlie (hold back the tide of the universe) until Charlie's death serves a greater purpose.

Offline Cardacct

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Re: Take me down to paradox city
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2007, 08:44:14 PM »

If he hadn't seen the flashes, Desmond never would have trekked into the jungle to find the parachutist, but if he'd never trekked into the jungle to find the parachutist, then where did the flashes come from?

I had the same problem with Minority Report. If he never saw the murder, there would be no murder, so there would be no murder to see.

Amen and amen to that.  That was my problem, too.

I suppose that Desmond is only seeing the possible future and not the actual future.  I just have to forget about my own inhibitions with all the crappy time manipulation in TV and movies and just go with the story.