question...christian/jack

[DirtyMaggieMae]

For sure!  It seems like the Dharma people were based on very peaceful values so I wouldn't think they'd be violent towards him.  However...if Entering 77 makes a hatch blow up if there are 'hostiles' inside and pulling out guns to use on the natives is acceptable...there seems to be a dark side of dharma too!  Ben might just want to watch his back

[LostAndSeek]

For sure!  It seems like the Dharma people were based on very peaceful values so I wouldn't think they'd be violent towards him.  However...if Entering 77 makes a hatch blow up if there are 'hostiles' inside and pulling out guns to use on the natives is acceptable...there seems to be a dark side of dharma too!  Ben might just want to watch his back

I wouldn't be surprised if the character of Dharma changed pretty radically after Dharmacaust.

[PrincessLeia]

TPTB were clear in answering what brought down the plane- Des failing to push the button, so we can't very well attribute the actual crash to a conspiracy.  However, when the plane crashed, it was already 1,000 miles off course due to the loss of radio contact 6 hours into the flight & the pilot's turning back toward Fiji.  I believe THAT may have been some sort of conspiracy.


Also- I know that somewhere around here, there is a pretty extensive list of all the passengers who were given tickets to flight 815 specifically.

So true.  I just can't shake the feeling that the entire series of events leading up to Desmond's not pushing the button was planned.  I can just see the very last episode of Lost we have this phantasmagoric scene with Widmore calling Ben who calls Kelvin who entices Des who misses the button that brings down the plane!  Damn.   

So the plane crashed because Des didn't press the button, but WHY was the plane already 1,000 off course?  Could it be because Ben wished a spinal surgeon into the "magic box" of the island?

[DirtyMaggieMae]

You know, it all depends on what the magical box is.  Is it something that manifests wishes?  something you have to ask directly?  Or is it just chance that what is brought to the island may be what you wished for in the first place? I just started to think that maybe the 'magic box' is Jacob.  Juliet wanted her sister to be cured of cancer, and apparently Jacob made it so.  Locke had to kill his father to be able to see Jacob, and he never would have been able to if his father hadn't been on the island. 

However- if we say that Ben wished it and so it became true, it is kinda making Ben out to be the top guy, and I'd like to think there is something bigger than Ben.  But also, the plane didn't just come down for Ben's benefit.  Because of the plane crashing, Juliet had the chance to leave the island, something she wanted to do.  It healed Locke's legs and enabled him to do his own version of a walkabout.  Sayid found love (if only for a short time), Kate escaped the law, Charlie kicked his habit...I mean. there are so many things that have worked out in people's favor because of the crash.

It seems to me like that old monkey hand story- a family gets that monkey hand and they get a few wishes.  So they wish for all this money.  The next day their son dies at work so they end up with this huge settlement.  But they miss their son, so they wish for their son back.  And he does come back- straight from the grave and inhuman.  So...like say Kate thinks to herself, 'man, i wish i could get out of this situation with the marshall' and then the universe says 'ok, fine.  but it's not going to be THAT easy...'

Does this post even mean anything?  Doubt it!

[Cowboy Up]

Naaa, it sorta makes sense...lol

I was thinking if the island/jacob wanted the Losties to come to the island to help him/it, caused all the events to occur....or, like on the movie Mothman Prophecies, there is a being with increased intellegence, that see's thing we can't see..therefore it can set the smallest thing in motion that starts a domino effect, to where we are now....maybe Hurley's numbers did start it all....

[DirtyMaggieMae]

Maybe.  If Dharma was started to try and figure out a way to reverse the numbers (from the valenzetti equation) that that is the origin.  But Mikhail says that the 'hostiles' were on the island before DHARMA, looooong before.  And Nestor Carbelllenalias (whatever, richard...) said in a radio interview that he thought the character of richard was 400 years old, there was something before dharma.  And according to lostpedia, valenzetti didn't figure that out until 1962 when comissioned by the UN. Huh?!

[Cowboy Up]

but thats another story..we are talking about the Losties, right?

[DirtyMaggieMae]

man.  i don't even know what we're talking about!

Oh.  "maybe Hurley's number did start it all..." the numbers were from dharma?  I think thats where I was going. 

[Cowboy Up]

Right, but the Dharma story is one thing, is what I mean...Losties are another...of course they have similarities with the numbers...Hurley getting the numbers form Lenny, who worked with Toomy, who heard the numbers and caused his own tragic events....

[PrincessLeia]

Simply put, my idea is that the indigenous Others (Richards group) have reasons for being there (protecting the secrets of the Island...following omniscient Jacob...discovering anti-aging secrets...whatever lol), but Dharma chose the Island for their Valenzetti project because of its unique properties.  Richard's Others (led by Ben) wiped out Dharma.  Ben found out about his tumor & "drew" the plane of the spinal surgeon offcourse (magic box metaphor), Des didn't push the button, so Losties crash, yada yada yada.

Clear as mud?

[Cowboy Up]

maybe we should just take it as fate....and stop questioning the almighty writers/producers....

[too2strange]

Ben and the Others were surprised by the crash.  Ben had no idea who was on the plane, he sent two people, Goodwin and Nathan, to spy and pretend to be survivors, collect names, etc.   I believe The plane was off course because it hit a time warp and was duplicated due to ...? Again, Ben had no idea who was on the plane.
SLIGHT POSSIBLE SPOILER BELOW???




   

In the final episode of season 3 in Jack's flashforward, Jack yells at the head of surgeons he should go get his father and if he is drunker than me... The point being,  in the future Christian is alive. 
How can that be?  Christian died, had a coffin, etc.  I believe that the Losties were duplicated in a time warp.  The airplane Naomi talked about REALLY exists.  The Losties died in an airplane crash, and their duplicates landed on the Island. 
So the Losties are duplicates and Christian's duplicate is alive?
 
I think the key is Danielle.  The French lady talked about a fever with her companions?  I believe Danielle didn't catch this fever because her duplicate died in the accident.  What would happen if you got too close to your living duplicate?

[DirtyMaggieMae]

*nathan was really a crash survivor, it was ethan that went to the fuselage site

What would happen if you get too close to your duplicate?  Not sure, but I'd guess chaos judging from Candle/Wickman/Halowax's reaction in the orchid video.

[DirtyMaggieMae]

This is from wikipedia on the philidelphia experiment, when a ship supposedly dissapeared for 18 minutes.  Concerning the crew:

The alleged physiological effects of the experiment on the crew were profound: almost all of the crew were violently ill. Some were alleged to have suffered from mental illness as a result of their experience; behavior consistent with schizophrenia is described in other accounts. Still other members, like Jacob D. Murray, were physically unaccounted for — supposedly “vanished” — and five of the crew were allegedly fused to the metal bulkhead or deck of the ship. Still others were said to fade in and out of sight.

[Cowboy Up]

I saw that show...good movie....