Author Topic: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:  (Read 3198 times)

Offline puff6962

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1074
    • View Profile
This was alluded to by Alex's comment to John.....that's what my dad does....he manipulates....he makes you think that it was your idea when it was really his.

Does Ben not only have precognition, but the ability to inject thoughts in others?  Is this the reason for his foray into the camp of the survivors? 

If Ben can jump ahead and scan quantum realities, is this why he is so concerned about outcomes and maintaining his leadership and the cohesiveness of the others?

Are there other sects of the others?  There must, at least, potentially be.

Offline LostGirlDeb

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 14531
  • Live Together Die Alone
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2007, 12:50:16 PM »
It seems that if you can apply this theory to the whole story then it actually can pertain to all of it, and yes that would make sense then.

Offline Creflo

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2007, 04:17:57 PM »
Puffdaddy: when you came to the table with your Quantum theory (which I really dig) after the Desmond episode, I wrote about the possiblity that certain persons are able to instruct their past selves with information they gain by present (or future) experience.

Desmond is an amateur at this skill compared with Ben who has been utilizing it his whole life.

Desmond clumsily attempts to save a doomed Charlie by personally intervening in various situations.

Ben orchestrates large-scale movements and complicated programs by divining people's motivations and intentions.  I started thinking this ever since I started reading what people had found in the Whispers during Ben's interrogation and during other events.


Offline Zenobia

  • Onlooker
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2007, 04:24:42 PM »
This is really interesting.  What do you mean by...

what people had found in the Whispers during Ben's interrogation and during other events.



Offline Creflo

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2007, 04:26:29 PM »
I tried to hunt it down before posting, but I couldn't find it again...old posts on another board.

Basically, iirc it was advice being whispered which would appear to instruct Ben on how to respond to questioning. 


try:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=893410#post893410


In a magazine article, Javier "Javi" Grillo-Marxauch (Writer, Supervising Producer) discusses the Whispers:

Quote
Q: Will it become clearer what the whispers on the wind mean? Javi: That falls into the mysterious nature of the Others, and as their mysteries begin to unfold, some of those things that we've planned around them will be explained. The fans want to know if you slow it down, and filter through an audio program, will you get important clues about the show... and the only answer I can give to that is, well, slow it down, filter it through an audio program, and see if you get important clues about the show
« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 04:35:27 PM by Creflo »

Offline General Zod

  • Background Extra
  • *
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2007, 04:32:12 PM »
Maybe he can do these things, but what do you think of letting himself get caught and tortured...was it just to plant ideas in the losties minds?

Offline lost_soul12

  • Background Extra
  • *
  • Posts: 94
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2007, 05:35:36 PM »
i have always wonderd about the whispers and what they mean. maybe its brain washing the losties and telling them what to do or say hhhmmmm.....but i do agree that ben has a gift just like desmon but ben knows how to use it more in effect

Offline puff6962

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1074
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2007, 06:04:24 PM »
Ben states that he came to the survivor's camp in order to get Locke.

I think that Ben has access to all of the survivors pasts and is most interested in those who have been changed by the island....Locke....or those who show precognition.....Walt.

This may be argued against by the case of Rose or the Korean laday....but we don't know if Rose is cured or not and we are not sure if the Korean lady was impregnated by her sterile husband....as maybe do not the others.

Offline LostGirlDeb

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 14531
  • Live Together Die Alone
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2007, 06:08:35 PM »
Puff
If he has access to all of their pasts, does that mean that he knew them in an alternate reality?

Offline this is some crazy stuff

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1111
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2007, 06:39:44 PM »
Lostgirl and Puff i like the things yall  are saying but i just cant agree that the show is that in depth.  I think there is a much simplar meaning of this show.  I just dont know what it is yet.

Offline puff6962

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1074
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2007, 06:46:26 PM »
Yes.  They have already shown Ben as a security personnel at the terminal of Oceanic flight 815.  Ben, or one of the Others, threaded back....first knowing the roster of the flight, next knowing the info available on US SEARCH, returning to the island to go back further, following the person, collecting more info on each passenger, travelling back to the island to go further back further, collecting more info on each, and so on and so on.

The placement of Others in the past lives of the survivors would suggest this.  However, would this constitute time travel?  Probably so.

The other possible explanation is that the precognition exhibited by Ben has allowed him to predict who will end up on the island and to send members of the Others as a research committee on the arrivees.  This would explain that one survivor, now with the Others, who was "there to observe."

Who knows?

Offline LostGirlDeb

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 14531
  • Live Together Die Alone
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2007, 12:59:59 PM »
Lostgirl and Puff i like the things yall  are saying but i just cant agree that the show is that in depth.  I think there is a much simplar meaning of this show.  I just dont know what it is yet.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE!!
There are sooooooo many folks out there that would not be able to understand such a complex theory.  (that includes me) So i really don't think they would go there either.
Another thought woud be time travel in mind/soul only.  Physical body never makes a move
Not sure if there is a name for it.
Also I have posted this somewhere before, Astral projection-"out of body experience" not sure the new name for it-I know they call it something like remote viewing
But that would explain things and tie in nicely with all the Budhist ideas that they throw at us on occassion.

Offline DaveDargo

  • Background Extra
  • *
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2007, 01:32:26 PM »
Is it not possible that the others got all their info on the losties from their connections to the outside world.  I mean surely the news etc in the real world would have info on all the people who were on the plane.

I could quite easily see the news:

"Jack Shepard was in Australia to collect the body of his father who died recently.  Kate Austen was being brought back to the US to be charged with the murder of her step father" etc

Offline CurtYanko

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 140
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2007, 01:57:08 PM »
I totally agree. This what I've been saying since the episode ended. There is just no way anyone could be quite the mastermind that Ben, planing things so many moves in advance (all the way back to when he made the deal with Jack for instance).

So either, he had mad skilz beyond anything we've seen from desmond or... Only fools are enslaved by time and space!

My other big suspicion coming out this episode is that Richard went and got Anthony Cooper at Ben's request. He used the 'box' to leave the island, mug Cooper and drag him back. Why not use that same box to visit the future?

In my show I like to start with the central theme of the episode as I feel it gives us context for all of the events we witness. This week, I'm leaning toward, 'cheating'. I think Ben's team is cheating and that is how they can be master manipulators. Certainly if you are not bound by time and space then to ordinary humans like us it would appear to be cheating but awfully hard to figure out how (since virtually no one would even entertain time travel as a possibility).

Offline Creflo

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
Re: BEN HAS DESMOND'S GIFT OF PRECOGNITION AND USES IT FOR MANIPULATION:
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2007, 03:33:25 PM »
Good call on "cheating" being a central theme.  I hadn't really absorbed that idea until you mentioned it, and now I think about how many times the phrase was used.


I think that with a simple (meaning not supernatural...certainly a very thorough) background check, a guy like Ben would be able to deduce a great deal about the Losties.  Just look at the leaps he made when Locke mentioned killing Patchy: Nicholai = Flame = C4 = you're gonna blow the sub.

Surely a group of folks living on The Island with no company other than themselves, Smokie, and Rousseau would want to know as much as possible about anyone who fell to their domain.  The big sinister corporations behind The Island would have plenty of resources to find out anything about any body.

I'm trying to think of an instance of Others' knowledge about someone that couldn't be obtained from legal records, medical records, or stuff they gleaned from their operatives.