Author Topic: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?  (Read 12908 times)

scrod

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2007, 01:51:02 PM »
if it was wheelchair vs walking for recovery, then he would not be pulling his body weight up by his arms.  The surgery was in a place where you would not want to do any heavy lifting for a while (ok, ok  it's tv, i know).  He could have had some nerve damage that will heal over time, but won't allow him to walk right now.

...Or he could be a lying bastard looking to garner some sympathy.

Offline ChellyKins

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2007, 04:40:11 PM »
Well I figured it was cos his thingy got infected, and Jack did say he might not walk again. Well thats what I thought anyway, didn't think it was acting.


You know, I find it so funny that A) NONE of us can stay on topic lmao! I'm not bashing, just laughing at it and B) you said his thingy got infected, sorry...but even THLAY would laugh at that one!  :D


Wheelchair = sympathy
Sub only way off = Ben is a lying bastard.

the end. lol

Offline Nancy Drew

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2007, 04:58:21 PM »
Sorry, I did go way off topic with that one :D  My bad.


Offline Psych0666

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2007, 09:48:05 AM »
Well I figured it was cos his thingy got infected, and Jack did say he might not walk again. Well thats what I thought anyway, didn't think it was acting.


You know, I find it so funny that A) NONE of us can stay on topic lmao! I'm not bashing, just laughing at it and B) you said his thingy got infected, sorry...but even THLAY would laugh at that one!  :D


Wheelchair = sympathy
Sub only way off = Ben is a lying bastard.

the end. lol

It's hard to stay on topic when the convo goes all over the place, ach well, makes me laugh too really, I always use thingy when I can't remember the word I'm after but I'm sure you got what I really meant, I've given up trying to figure what the hell went on with the sub now, whether it's the only way off or not, I'm gonna wait and see. Gotta agree that Bens a lying bastard, just that all the best lies have a basis in truth, it's trying to figure out which bits are which thats the hard part. (did that come out wrong lol)

Offline Creflo

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2007, 11:35:07 AM »
The Island messes with compasses and perhaps satellite and GPS.

It lay unnoticed (except for a few who were pulled in) for centuries.  Once the first person was able to stumble upon the island, recognize its value, and find a way to return, it became populated by DHARMA et al.  This first return voyage was probably a (the?) sub.

This happened only as a result of technology available in the last 40 years or so.  It was probably a military expedition first.  They would've set up basic supplies, communication, and a beacon.  Then DHARMA was brought in after that by either the same forces or by innocent researchers.  This would mean that Ben (if he's truthful about living there always) predates DHARMA and probably fought against them in "the purge".

The natural properties of The Island which confounded previous explorers were somewhat tamed by the DHARMA stations.  The Swan didn't cause the magnetic anomaly, it merely contained it.  When supply drops were scheduled, something else happened in the station which allowed the planes to locate them.  With the station destroyed, the magnetic anomaly is more intense and unpredictable.

This would explain how:
- The sub WAS able to travel back and forth before the failsafe
- Now the sub cannot return via sonar
- DHARMA planes WERE able tune into the beacon and drop supplies (because they knew what to look/listen for)
- Now the planes cannot or will not return
- Rescuers will continue to be confounded, but there are probably Powers That Be who know roughly where The Island is located.
- None of the other Others vessels are seaworthy.  The big yacht probably wouldn't fare any better than Desmond, a trained captain of a no-fuel-required top-notch sailboat.  They would be Lost.

The big question is who are TPTB in regards to DHARMA supplies and communication.  Have the Others been pretending to be DHARMA for the last decades in order to continue to receive supplies?  Marvin Candle mentions rebellions/incidents in the films, so clearly DHARMA was aware of the other forces on The Island and set up countermeasures at least 10-20 years ago. 

My guess is that the two factions would be former military (including Ben's family and Nicolai) who were there first, and DHARMA hippies who came in the 70's for research.  Over time, there were interactions, trading, feuding, lines drawn, and finally a purge.  Ben's people probably have an understanding with whoever continues to provide DHARMA supplies.  If someone were to leave, they probably wouldn't know whose door to go knocking on to get in touch with TPTB.  Without the beacon or the knowledge of TPTB, they could never return or bring help.

Offline goober

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2007, 01:01:59 PM »
Sounds reasonable. It was stated in the Swan video (or Pearl?) that the island has natural magnetic properties. The Swan acting as sort of a containment field makes sense.

Offline jugdish

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2007, 01:07:55 PM »
Creflo this was a fresh of breath air after all the silly stuff I have been reading this week. Great post, I agree with it all.

Offline PrincessLeia

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #67 on: March 26, 2007, 02:02:13 PM »
The Island messes with compasses and perhaps satellite and GPS.

It lay unnoticed (except for a few who were pulled in) for centuries.  Once the first person was able to stumble upon the island, recognize its value, and find a way to return, it became populated by DHARMA et al.  This first return voyage was probably a (the?) sub.

This happened only as a result of technology available in the last 40 years or so.  It was probably a military expedition first.  They would've set up basic supplies, communication, and a beacon.  Then DHARMA was brought in after that by either the same forces or by innocent researchers.  This would mean that Ben (if he's truthful about living there always) predates DHARMA and probably fought against them in "the purge".

The natural properties of The Island which confounded previous explorers were somewhat tamed by the DHARMA stations.  The Swan didn't cause the magnetic anomaly, it merely contained it.  When supply drops were scheduled, something else happened in the station which allowed the planes to locate them.  With the station destroyed, the magnetic anomaly is more intense and unpredictable.

This would explain how:
- The sub WAS able to travel back and forth before the failsafe
- Now the sub cannot return via sonar
- DHARMA planes WERE able tune into the beacon and drop supplies (because they knew what to look/listen for)
- Now the planes cannot or will not return
- Rescuers will continue to be confounded, but there are probably Powers That Be who know roughly where The Island is located.
- None of the other Others vessels are seaworthy.  The big yacht probably wouldn't fare any better than Desmond, a trained captain of a no-fuel-required top-notch sailboat.  They would be Lost.

The big question is who are TPTB in regards to DHARMA supplies and communication.  Have the Others been pretending to be DHARMA for the last decades in order to continue to receive supplies?  Marvin Candle mentions rebellions/incidents in the films, so clearly DHARMA was aware of the other forces on The Island and set up countermeasures at least 10-20 years ago. 

My guess is that the two factions would be former military (including Ben's family and Nicolai) who were there first, and DHARMA hippies who came in the 70's for research.  Over time, there were interactions, trading, feuding, lines drawn, and finally a purge.  Ben's people probably have an understanding with whoever continues to provide DHARMA supplies.  If someone were to leave, they probably wouldn't know whose door to go knocking on to get in touch with TPTB.  Without the beacon or the knowledge of TPTB, they could never return or bring help.
Great post!  I also agree. :)

Offline AstroJones

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2007, 12:31:26 AM »
I started asking myself this same question tonight about the sub and the boat (the original question LG asked).  I missed this thread last week, but found it with a little searching and just had to comment (after reading all 5 pages! geez!! ;) )

LG, I agree with several others in this thread.  I think Ben quickly recognized that Locke knew of the sub, but not the boats.  You remember, when Locke first mentioned the sub Ben said, what sub.  Then, later he knew it was no use, and he saw the opportunity to manipulate John into doing what he really needed him to do.  Destroy the sub.  So he told Locke the story about the sub being the only way off the island.  Told Locke about the illusion that he needed.

Now, anyone who knows anything about lying and manipulating people will tell you, you never lie about any more than you have to.  You only want to bend and twist the truth, otherwise you get lost in your own lies.  So I do think a great deal about what Ben said is true.  But that sub can't be the only way off the island.  There's no way I believe Desmond's boat or their yacht couldn't get someone off the island.  So I have to assume that it was all a manipulative trick of Ben's.  Nothing else makes sense to me.

But I have another question.  Jack's a smart guy right?  Why would Jack ever believe that the sub is the only way off the island?  I agree it might be the only way off and back on the island, but why isn't Jack demanding the use of the Yacht, which he's been on, to get off the island?

scrod

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2007, 12:56:05 AM »

But I have another question.  Jack's a smart guy right?  Why would Jack ever believe that the sub is the only way off the island?  I agree it might be the only way off and back on the island, but why isn't Jack demanding the use of the Yacht, which he's been on, to get off the island?
That certainly should be next requst, but we haven't seen it since it was confiscated,  Hopefully it wasnt moored next to the sub :(

Offline puff6962

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2007, 12:00:41 PM »
The sub is the only way off because only a submarine has a fencer valve.  It's all about ball bearings boy.  Now get me some windex and some 10W-40!

Offline goober

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2007, 12:47:28 PM »
Hehe

Fletch Rulez!  :D

Offline the JoshMeister

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2007, 06:35:09 PM »
My big question last night was:
Why is the submarine the only way off the island?

Why can't they just take one of the boats?

Any thoughts or ideas about this?

Do they have to travel through underwater channels to get back and forth?

Curt Yanko and I talked about this on the Black Rock Podcast.  Here's a link to the MP3.  The whole podcast episode is an hour and a half, but the part that's relevant to this thread starts at about 18 minutes, 0 seconds into the show.  Here are my show notes which include a summary of that part of the discussion.

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: Why is the submarine the only way off the island?
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2007, 04:20:41 PM »
My big question last night was:
Why is the submarine the only way off the island?

Why can't they just take one of the boats?

Any thoughts or ideas about this?

Do they have to travel through underwater channels to get back and forth?

Curt Yanko and I talked about this on the Black Rock Podcast.  Here's a link to the MP3.  The whole podcast episode is an hour and a half, but the part that's relevant to this thread starts at about 18 minutes, 0 seconds into the show.  Here are my show notes which include a summary of that part of the discussion.

Thanks I will check it out :D