Author Topic: Does Locke blow up the sub?  (Read 35644 times)

Offline jules778

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2007, 08:48:54 PM »
Okay, so maybe we are over-analyzing, but here's my final shot.  Like any normal, average, everyday dude like myself, Locke knows how to do three things:  Cook a steak, change a tire, and scuttle a submarine.  So, here's how yours truly, Casino, scuttles a submarine in such a way as to result in an explosion AND getting wet.

First, even though as an average everday dude I should be intensely aware of the explosive force of various types of plastic explosives, I am still not sure that this block of C4 will actually blow a hole in the hull of the sub and sink it.  I mean, what if it just dents it, or leaves a repairable hole but does not sink it?  Then I'm pretty much screwed.  I've watched enough of the History Channel, though, to know this is no nuclear submarine, so I figure there is diesel fuel in the engine room.  I climb down the hatch, make my way to the back of the sub, and since it's just one long tube I can't really miss the engine room.  I put the C4 on the fuel tank and set the timer, figuring that's going to cause some real damage. I've only got one shot at completely taking this sub out, though, and I don't know how much damage they may be able to repair....I mean, maybe they've got some repair facility on the Island or something.  So, I want to make sure I not only blow up the engine, but totally sink the thing.

Luckilu, anyone who has ever watched JAG or any WWII movie involving a submarine knows that you can flood a compartment of a sub by opening the flood valves, and if you can get enough water in there you can sink the sub.  So, on my way out, I open as many of them as I can find, which thankfully is easy because they have big red letters on them that say "FLOOD VALVE," at which time water begins shooting out of a pipe and filling the interior of the submarine, in the process getting me, Casino the Sub Sinker, soaking wet.

So, even as I kneel on the dock, soaking wet, with a gun to my head, I am still happy, because I know that they only way they will be able to repair the engine that just blew up behind me is to raise that damn submarine off the bottom of the ocean first.





ok that makes sense as to why he was wet!

Offline Gordon Shumway

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2007, 09:12:04 PM »


Locke was sweating, it is humid.

I agree.  I'd be sweating like crazy too if I knew I about to tick off 99% of the island's inhabitants.

Offline arkham

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2007, 09:19:15 PM »
There's something strange on this.

Locke was entirely wet and he wasn't carrying his bags.
We can see even the Eko's Jesus stick on it when he is inside the sub.
No way he just left it behind....

Offline goober

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2007, 11:26:13 PM »
Okay, so maybe we are over-analyzing, but here's my final shot.  Like any normal, average, everyday dude like myself, Locke knows how to do three things:  Cook a steak, change a tire, and scuttle a submarine.  So, here's how yours truly, Casino, scuttles a submarine in such a way as to result in an explosion AND getting wet.

First, even though as an average everday dude I should be intensely aware of the explosive force of various types of plastic explosives, I am still not sure that this block of C4 will actually blow a hole in the hull of the sub and sink it.  I mean, what if it just dents it, or leaves a repairable hole but does not sink it?  Then I'm pretty much screwed.  I've watched enough of the History Channel, though, to know this is no nuclear submarine, so I figure there is diesel fuel in the engine room.  I climb down the hatch, make my way to the back of the sub, and since it's just one long tube I can't really miss the engine room.  I put the C4 on the fuel tank and set the timer, figuring that's going to cause some real damage. I've only got one shot at completely taking this sub out, though, and I don't know how much damage they may be able to repair....I mean, maybe they've got some repair facility on the Island or something.  So, I want to make sure I not only blow up the engine, but totally sink the thing.

Luckilu, anyone who has ever watched JAG or any WWII movie involving a submarine knows that you can flood a compartment of a sub by opening the flood valves, and if you can get enough water in there you can sink the sub.  So, on my way out, I open as many of them as I can find, which thankfully is easy because they have big red letters on them that say "FLOOD VALVE," at which time water begins shooting out of a pipe and filling the interior of the submarine, in the process getting me, Casino the Sub Sinker, soaking wet.

So, even as I kneel on the dock, soaking wet, with a gun to my head, I am still happy, because I know that they only way they will be able to repair the engine that just blew up behind me is to raise that damn submarine off the bottom of the ocean first.






That would work, but I don't know of any submarines with Flood Valves. Submergence is accomplished by flooding ballast tanks external to the hull. If they had flood valves, then some dummy would come along and say "I wonder what this is for?" and screw everything up. Then again, this is lost.

Submarines dp have bilges where water collects (condensation, leaky seals around the screw, etc.) and is pumped overboard. Locke may have crawled around in this to set the charge, OR he set a charge internally and one externally. Although I only recall seeing one charge.

Then again he could have set the charges, jumped overboard and swam.

Who knows? It's a little wierd, but not too wierd for lost.

Offline LouE68

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #64 on: March 23, 2007, 02:10:31 AM »
Sayid reached into tha pack and produced one block of C4, if Locke had more or not at this point we dont know.

When the chemical reaction begins, the C-4 decomposes to release a variety of gases (notably, nitrogen and carbon oxides). The gases initially expand at about 26,400 feet per second (8,050 meters per second), applying a huge amount of force to everything in the surrounding area. At this expansion rate, it is totally impossible to outrun the explosion like they do in dozens of action movies. To the observer, the explosion is nearly instantaneous -- one second, everything's normal, and the next it's totally destroyed.

The explosion actually has two phases. The initial expansion inflicts most of the damage. It also creates a very low-pressure area around the explosion's origin -- the gases are moving outward so rapidly that they suck most of the gas out from the "middle" of the explosion. After the outward blast, gases rush back in to the partial vacuum, creating a second, less-destructive inward energy wave.

A small amount of C-4 packs a pretty big punch. Less than a pound of C-4 could potentially kill several people, and several military issue M112 blocks of C-4, weighing about 1.25 pounds (half a kilogram) each, could potentially demolish a truck. Demolition experts typically use a good amount of C-4 in order to do a job properly. To take out one 8-inch (20.3-centimeter) square steel beam, for example, they would probably use 8 to 10 pounds (3.6 to 4.5 kilograms) of C-4.

Offline PrincessLeia

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #65 on: March 23, 2007, 03:29:39 AM »
Sayid reached into tha pack and produced one block of C4, if Locke had more or not at this point we dont know.

When the chemical reaction begins, the C-4 decomposes to release a variety of gases (notably, nitrogen and carbon oxides). The gases initially expand at about 26,400 feet per second (8,050 meters per second), applying a huge amount of force to everything in the surrounding area. At this expansion rate, it is totally impossible to outrun the explosion like they do in dozens of action movies. To the observer, the explosion is nearly instantaneous -- one second, everything's normal, and the next it's totally destroyed.

The explosion actually has two phases. The initial expansion inflicts most of the damage. It also creates a very low-pressure area around the explosion's origin -- the gases are moving outward so rapidly that they suck most of the gas out from the "middle" of the explosion. After the outward blast, gases rush back in to the partial vacuum, creating a second, less-destructive inward energy wave.

A small amount of C-4 packs a pretty big punch. Less than a pound of C-4 could potentially kill several people, and several military issue M112 blocks of C-4, weighing about 1.25 pounds (half a kilogram) each, could potentially demolish a truck. Demolition experts typically use a good amount of C-4 in order to do a job properly. To take out one 8-inch (20.3-centimeter) square steel beam, for example, they would probably use 8 to 10 pounds (3.6 to 4.5 kilograms) of C-4.

Thanks for digging that info up for us, Lou. :)  It was very insightful.

Offline casino

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #66 on: March 23, 2007, 09:45:02 AM »

That would work, but I don't know of any submarines with Flood Valves. Submergence is accomplished by flooding ballast tanks external to the hull. If they had flood valves, then some dummy would come along and say "I wonder what this is for?" and screw everything up. Then again, this is lost.

Submarines dp have bilges where water collects (condensation, leaky seals around the screw, etc.) and is pumped overboard. Locke may have crawled around in this to set the charge, OR he set a charge internally and one externally. Although I only recall seeing one charge.

Then again he could have set the charges, jumped overboard and swam.

Who knows? It's a little wierd, but not too wierd for lost.

Well, the sub has an internal hull and an external hull. Between these two hulls is where the ballast water goes.  There is a big valve that lets the water in and out.  Maybe he crawled down in there and placed the charge right there to make sure it breached the outer hull.

As far as flood valves go, check out the account of the capture of the Nazi submarine U-505.  Just google U-505 and you'll get it.  The account states that the first thing the boarding party did when they got on the U-boat was to locate and close the "scuttle valves," flood valves purposefully used to scuttle the ship.  According to my ex-Navy Dad, who is NOT a submarine guy but an aircraft carrier guy, they can flood an individual compartment or a number of compartments to control a fire.

I know LOST is just a TV show and they take liberties, but seriously...they did it on JAG.  Everybody knows that JAG is 100% technically accurate, right?  Why, I spent 8 years on a Navy base and I saw Marine JAG laywers that looked like Catherine Bell every day.  ;)

Anyway, I yield to anyone who has actually been inside a submarine, because I never have.  The most I've done is check on the air compressors and nitrogen carts that our civilian crews maintained, and those subs were all ballistic nukes and looked much different than the one we saw on LOST.   

Offline casino

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #67 on: March 23, 2007, 09:45:46 AM »
Lou,

Great info on C4.  I did not know any of that.

Offline goober

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #68 on: March 23, 2007, 09:50:12 AM »

Well, the sub has an internal hull and an external hull. Between these two hulls is where the ballast water goes.  There is a big valve that lets the water in and out.  Maybe he crawled down in there and placed the charge right there to make sure it breached the outer hull.

Excellent point. I failed to mention that.

Good info on the C4 too.

Offline Jpash

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #69 on: March 23, 2007, 10:35:29 AM »
A very simple explaination for all of this that has nothing to do with the plot. To make an explosion they pour gasoline in the bottom of a 50 gallon drum and light it up. It produces a lot of heat and a big flame that shoots straight up(don't do this at home). Actors near the explosion need either protective clothing or have to be wet down to keep from getting overheated or even scalded. Since Locke was wearing only a t-shirt he had to be wet down right before the blast.

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #70 on: March 23, 2007, 11:48:59 PM »
Well I started this post convinced that he didn't blow up the sub, but it's leading me round in circles trying to explain his reasoning for keeping it.  He did make several earlier attempts to sabotage an escape of the island, clubbing Sayid, for one.  But there is one strong point in the favor of him leaving the sub in tact.  Watching the episode, they make a darn good point of showing Locke being soaking wet, starting from his feet on upwards.  Why he went back to the dock to face inevitable capture I don't know, maybe it was part of his plan.  Why not just swim away a few dozen feet and book it back to camp, now that the deed was done?  He wanted to be caught, in my opinion. 

Offline Optimus J

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #71 on: March 24, 2007, 08:37:30 AM »

That would work, but I don't know of any submarines with Flood Valves. Submergence is accomplished by flooding ballast tanks external to the hull. If they had flood valves, then some dummy would come along and say "I wonder what this is for?" and screw everything up. Then again, this is lost.

Submarines dp have bilges where water collects (condensation, leaky seals around the screw, etc.) and is pumped overboard. Locke may have crawled around in this to set the charge, OR he set a charge internally and one externally. Although I only recall seeing one charge.

Then again he could have set the charges, jumped overboard and swam.

Who knows? It's a little wierd, but not too wierd for lost.

Well, the sub has an internal hull and an external hull. Between these two hulls is where the ballast water goes.  There is a big valve that lets the water in and out.  Maybe he crawled down in there and placed the charge right there to make sure it breached the outer hull.

As far as flood valves go, check out the account of the capture of the Nazi submarine U-505.  Just google U-505 and you'll get it.  The account states that the first thing the boarding party did when they got on the U-boat was to locate and close the "scuttle valves," flood valves purposefully used to scuttle the ship.  According to my ex-Navy Dad, who is NOT a submarine guy but an aircraft carrier guy, they can flood an individual compartment or a number of compartments to control a fire.

I know LOST is just a TV show and they take liberties, but seriously...they did it on JAG.  Everybody knows that JAG is 100% technically accurate, right?  Why, I spent 8 years on a Navy base and I saw Marine JAG laywers that looked like Catherine Bell every day.  ;)

Anyway, I yield to anyone who has actually been inside a submarine, because I never have.  The most I've done is check on the air compressors and nitrogen carts that our civilian crews maintained, and those subs were all ballistic nukes and looked much different than the one we saw on LOST.   

I didn't saw enough to be 100 sure, but that sub looked like the ones Treasure Hunters use. Weird thing it's if I'm right, that submarine is meant to travel small distances, so that must be a delivering dock very near. I can't see a scientific vessel, like that one appear to be, propelling for much time.

It's, go there, anchor, search, load, go back to bring the REAL equipment.

And the tanks on those models are too thin to allow a human enter. I believe the military submarines have tanks big enough to allow a human to craw inside them, but that scientific model haven't.

Offline goober

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #72 on: March 24, 2007, 09:57:11 AM »
Correct.  ;D

Offline on the island

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #73 on: March 24, 2007, 11:33:22 AM »
Someone mentioned the bag Locke had with him earlier.  You can see Eko's stick is in it.  Did he really just leave it to be blown up?  Some said Locke's shirt could be sweat wet from sweat as well, but look at the difference in his shirt from walking onto the dock and walking off of the dock.
Walking onto the dock:

Walking off the dock:

(lost-media.com gallery)

Offline DirtyMaggieMae

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Re: Does Locke blow up the sub?
« Reply #74 on: March 24, 2007, 12:08:04 PM »
Well if that doesn't instill a (brief) sense of doubt about the sub explosion, I don't know what would!