Poll

Is Christian Alive

yes
17 (37.8%)
no
19 (42.2%)
maybe
7 (15.6%)
who cares?
2 (4.4%)

Total Members Voted: 42

Voting closed: March 25, 2007, 04:19:05 PM

Author Topic: Since there seems to be a disagreement..  (Read 15184 times)

Offline Wishbone

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2007, 05:13:55 PM »
There were definitely cigarettes - and I don't know why you're asking
(but I'm not Juggy) :D

Offline jules778

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2007, 05:18:16 PM »
cigrette that was smoking in the pearl station right?   Good Idea

Offline PrincessLeia

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2007, 05:33:00 PM »
cigrette that was smoking in the pearl station right?   Good Idea
You got it, jules. :)  Very interesting. :)

Offline darinfic

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2007, 05:58:14 PM »
i voted yes. i can't get past the name christian shepherd. is it an allusion to jesus? i don't think he died and came back, but i do think he faked his death. perhaps ana-lucia being a bodyguard was meant a little more literally. she was an alibi in that she witnessed him going to drink himself to death, thus giving him an out.

also, the name shepherd is key in that he is most likely (in my mind) a recruiter for the others. he was integral in getting ana and jack on the flight, and less directly help set in the motions for claire.

i just finsihed reading the third policeman as well, and really like the quantam theory speculation. notice the others seem to always give choices, increasing reality "splits"

Offline goober

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2007, 09:30:14 AM »
Goober I said you can't rule it out. I never said he has to be alive because you can't find the body.

I wished people would read what other people write instead of just repeating that something doesn't make sense.


(A) You need to switch to decaf.

(B) This was your sentence:

"Until we find out that they bodies are place lovingly in a special place by the Island/Smokie, then we can't rule out that Christian's body was not there because he is not dead."

Besides being a grammatical wreck, it makes very little actual sense. Sounds to me like you are arguing that he is (or could be) alive. I fail to see how Christian's body being missing from the coffin is evidence of that. Yemi is gone also,... is he alive?

I did read your post many times. I simply could not understand what your point was. It sounded then, and now, that you were stating that Christian was alive and that your evidence was that his body was gone. Yet you were not arguing the same for Yemi, whose body also went missing. Thus I was confused.

Please refrain from jumping to conclusions about what I did and did not read or do. I do this for a living, I'm actually pretty good at reading and understanding what other people write.

scrod

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2007, 10:05:13 AM »
Yemi is gone also,... is he alive?


I know you are splitting hairs and being sarcastic, but for the edification of our younger viewers, we saw Yemi's body in a state that we could readily determine that he was deceased.  What with the missing flesh and all.

The same cannot be said for Christian.  The missing body is point that leads us to think that he may be alive.  Same is true of Kelvin.  The lack of a body introduces some doubt in the thought process.  In the next week or two we will likely have the same dilemma concerning Mikhail.

Offline goober

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2007, 11:36:59 AM »
Correct.

My point all along has been that the fact that Christian's body went missing means absolutely nothing thus far. Yemi's body is gone, as is Kelvin's. So that in and of itself is not very strong evidence.

Occam's Razor states that the simplest (least complicated) solution is usually the most correct one.

Utilizing that, Christian is most likely dead since all of the available evidence points to that conclusion. He may very well be alive, but I don't see the evidence for it and nobody has come up with a very convincing argument yet. There is much "jumping to a conclusion" rather than a systematic, logical argument in support of Christian's survival.

It may very well be that he is alive, however I don't think so. It has also been postulated that he is HIM, or Jacob, or one of the Others. I don't buy that either. If Locke and the others are too flawed to make it onto the list, then is a Drunk OK??? Anger and weakness are disqualifiers for Otherville membership, but being a Drunk who fathers a child out of wedlock and treats his wife and son as poorly as Christian did makes him a candidate for not just membership, but LEADERSHIP. If this turns out to be the case, then I would say that the writers of this show would lose mucho credibility.

Too contradictory IMHO.

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2007, 11:39:31 AM »
Hey I thought we already did this!
Of course he is alive
Don't we have a list or something somewhere with people that agree?

Offline a_dot_out

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2007, 11:52:16 AM »
I voted 'maybe' but lean closer to 'yes'.

For the record, my Magic-8 ball agrees.

scrod

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2007, 11:54:43 AM »
Correct.

My point all along has been that the fact that Christian's body went missing means absolutely nothing thus far. Yemi's body is gone, as is Kelvin's. So that in and of itself is not very strong evidence.

Occam's Razor states that the simplest (least complicated) solution is usually the most correct one.

Utilizing that, Christian is most likely dead since all of the available evidence points to that conclusion. He may very well be alive, but I don't see the evidence for it and nobody has come up with a very convincing argument yet. There is much "jumping to a conclusion" rather than a systematic, logical argument in support of Christian's survival.

It may very well be that he is alive, however I don't think so. It has also been postulated that he is HIM, or Jacob, or one of the Others. I don't buy that either. If Locke and the others are too flawed to make it onto the list, then is a Drunk OK??? Anger and weakness are disqualifiers for Otherville membership, but being a Drunk who fathers a child out of wedlock and treats his wife and son as poorly as Christian did makes him a candidate for not just membership, but LEADERSHIP. If this turns out to be the case, then I would say that the writers of this show would lose mucho credibility.

Too contradictory IMHO.
But sometimes leadership demands qualities from the rank and file that it does not possess itself - and not always in a reasonable way.

And while I'm on the subject - thanks Florida!

Remember Occam's Razor is only one tool. 

If we rely on evidence, we have seen Christian with our own eyes walking around the island at a point in time after his supposed death, wearing a suit that he would have been wearing in the coffin and the actual coffin is empty.  It would be reasonable to conclude that our previous information (from the mortician) may have been faulty and/or purposely tampered with to intentionally mislead us.  Jack would be unreliable due to his mental state, in addition I do not believe he gave him a thorough (or even cursory) examination to ensure he was dead.  He accepted the information he was given.

For motive, Christian had growing debt, a dwindling professional reputation and adult children experiencing great difficulty on 2 continents.  The time to 'disappear' and start over would be now, faking a death and taking an assumed identity could be part of that. 

Or (for the purposes of our story) he could have possessed unusual skill or information that would lead Mittlewerk/Dharma to recruit him - necessitating his disappearance.  Also would permanently stop his pain in the ass son from chasing around looking for him.  IF that is the plan, that part didn't work out so well.

Offline goober

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2007, 12:03:11 PM »
Correct.

My point all along has been that the fact that Christian's body went missing means absolutely nothing thus far. Yemi's body is gone, as is Kelvin's. So that in and of itself is not very strong evidence.

Occam's Razor states that the simplest (least complicated) solution is usually the most correct one.

Utilizing that, Christian is most likely dead since all of the available evidence points to that conclusion. He may very well be alive, but I don't see the evidence for it and nobody has come up with a very convincing argument yet. There is much "jumping to a conclusion" rather than a systematic, logical argument in support of Christian's survival.

It may very well be that he is alive, however I don't think so. It has also been postulated that he is HIM, or Jacob, or one of the Others. I don't buy that either. If Locke and the others are too flawed to make it onto the list, then is a Drunk OK??? Anger and weakness are disqualifiers for Otherville membership, but being a Drunk who fathers a child out of wedlock and treats his wife and son as poorly as Christian did makes him a candidate for not just membership, but LEADERSHIP. If this turns out to be the case, then I would say that the writers of this show would lose mucho credibility.

Too contradictory IMHO.
But sometimes leadership demands qualities from the rank and file that it does not possess itself - and not always in a reasonable way.

And while I'm on the subject - thanks Florida!

Remember Occam's Razor is only one tool. 

If we rely on evidence, we have seen Christian with our own eyes walking around the island at a point in time after his supposed death, wearing a suit that he would have been wearing in the coffin and the actual coffin is empty.  It would be reasonable to conclude that our previous information (from the mortician) may have been faulty and/or purposely tampered with to intentionally mislead us.  Jack would be unreliable due to his mental state, in addition I do not believe he gave him a thorough (or even cursory) examination to ensure he was dead.  He accepted the information he was given.

For motive, Christian had growing debt, a dwindling professional reputation and adult children experiencing great difficulty on 2 continents.  The time to 'disappear' and start over would be now, faking a death and taking an assumed identity could be part of that. 

Or (for the purposes of our story) he could have possessed unusual skill or information that would lead Mittlewerk/Dharma to recruit him - necessitating his disappearance.  Also would permanently stop his pain in the ass son from chasing around looking for him.  IF that is the plan, that part didn't work out so well.

However we also saw Kate's Horse, Dave, Yemi, etc. So that is not reliable evidence either.

Offline goober

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2007, 12:04:10 PM »
Hey I thought we already did this!
Of course he is alive
Don't we have a list or something somewhere with people that agree?


14 say Yes
19 say NO
7 maybes
2 who cares

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2007, 12:21:23 PM »
Hey I thought we already did this!
Of course he is alive
Don't we have a list or something somewhere with people that agree?


14 say Yes
19 say NO
7 maybes
2 who cares

LOL Goober-I could have sworn we had a thread with a "list" somewhere else is what I was saying

Offline jugdish

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2007, 12:26:25 PM »
Hey I thought we already did this!
Of course he is alive
Don't we have a list or something somewhere with people that agree?


14 say Yes
19 say NO
7 maybes
2 who cares

LOL Goober-I could have sworn we had a thread with a "list" somewhere else is what I was saying

It is in lost talk or speculations.

Offline jugdish

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Re: Since there seems to be a disagreement..
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2007, 12:38:28 PM »
starflier23
Crazy stuff
Juggy
Princess Leia
airdude
snowyjoe
Des8
E-Rich
Lost from the start
GJ
Jackreallylovesjuggy

This list!!