Author Topic: Dharma's Human Experiments  (Read 2267 times)

Offline Cardacct

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Dharma's Human Experiments
« on: March 09, 2007, 10:45:02 PM »
This episode got me thinking a little bit more about how Dharma fits into The Others' existence on the island.

Anyway, I think it's fair to say that Dharma had a few human experiments going on on the island.  They also had experiments for the polar bears, the sea creatures, and even frogs.

But, what were the human experiments?  What do you think they were?

I think the pressing of the button was one.  Writing in the notebooks was another, etc.  But, I also think that they had one that dealt with observing the behavior of people absent of knowledge of the outside world.  My this theory isn't completely formed, but perhaps they would take groups of people, put them in the rugged environment, and see how they interacted.  Maybe there were natives of the island already untouched by the outside world, and maybe Dharma experimented on them.  Perhaps they tried to teach them about the outside world.  Maybe they were quick learners and rebelled, and thus we have The Others.

Thoughts?

mindsparkle

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2007, 02:36:48 AM »
I absolutely agree that there had to be numerous experiments on the human condition and being able to predict behavior or influence behavior... too many to try to list... why would they not have taken every advantage they could to test every aspect of human behavior -- the one key factor in the Valenzetti Equation is the human one... everything is contingent on what we humans do...  so I agree that we would be the prime target for study and manipulation, from genetics to behavior to prediction... 

Any group of test subjects could start to feel oppressed by the testing methods or the test it's self and a contingency or faction could have erupted out of any of the people on the island... but who was there... I find it strange that the others I've seen are a mixed group of people and I would expect natives to be south pacific islanders... maybe the natives were killed off and only the youngest of the Dharma folk survived so their connection to Dharma is confused...

just babbling as usual...

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2007, 10:34:00 AM »
Nice thoughts cardi.  I agree with the idea of human experiments.  But, I hadn't really thought of experiments on the "natives".  Hmmm...  this has really got me thinking.  We already know they "watched" people, and I agree those were "experiments" of their own.  Let me think on it some more. 

Offline Nancy Drew

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2007, 06:03:20 PM »
I am not convinced any natives stayed on the island long enough to see the Black Rock there.  I wonder if the electromagnetic pulses of the island caused problems for them and they migrated to a different place.  Plus, it is a small island.  For food purposes, would there have been enough to support a large tribe of natives for generations?

Offline Cardacct

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2007, 06:15:26 PM »
Well, "natives" isn't very clear.  I mean, the life had to start somewhere.  I'm not saying that these people were there through The Black Rock or whatnot.  I'm saying purely that there were people already there that had been untouched by the industrial revolution, etc. when Dharma got there to do experiments.  So, for me it could have been really early on or somewhat recently.  All you actually need to create a community like that is children.

So, basically, I don't have my mind made up as to from where they originated.

Offline Wishbone

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2007, 06:38:39 PM »
I have been thinking about this too Cardacct.

What if Dharma is responsible for the others being there - a long time ago and this was just one of many experiments. The others might not have even known that they were part of an experiment, they could have all been children.

I wonder if Dharma planned to have 2 test subjects - the others and the Dharma employees - kind of like a science V's humanity experiment - who will succeed first.

Lost always reminds me of the film Battle Royale and this is kind of along those lines.

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2007, 06:43:10 PM »
i still haven't bought into the "natives" idea.  i think ben is as "native" as it can get, just meaning he was born on the island, but it doesn't neccissarily mean his parents were.  

Personally, I think the experiments are all part of the hierarchy.  Ben is watching the underlings and such.  I think Juliet is in on this, and probably a few others.  The "recruit" people to do certain "jobs" that are experiments within themselves.  Then I think there are also medical experiments we have yet to see.  

Had to revise, Wishbone posted.  I think DHARMA and the others are the same.  (Just FYI)  So I think that DHARMA employees are the test subjects.  Since the crash, DHARMA has had new meat, so they have been doing experiments on our losties.  Mostly watching behaviors, but also with Claire & the baby, Walt, etc. 

Anyway, my 2 cents.  (well actually 4, I gave my 2 earlier)

Offline Wishbone

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2007, 06:53:54 PM »
I'm with you on this Ladybug

Desmond and then the plane crash survivors are the variables that Dharma hadn't banked on - other variables have been dealt with

Ecko's brother and co - died on impact
Balloon man - either already dead on contact or dealt with by the others

Probably more but can't think of any.

Kelvin was a wild card because Dessie showed up and tempted him with his boat so it's Dessie who affected that part of the experiment but because he carried on pushing the button and the other Dharma employees had 'lost' their part of the game no-one noticed Kelvin was no longer there.

Danielle is the other puzzler but I'm thinking she is onvolved woth the others and is being duplicitous.

The others and Dharma employees were part of an experiemnt but the others were oblivious they were being tested and the employees were not told the true purpose of why they were there.

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2007, 07:23:08 PM »

Danielle is the other puzzler but I'm thinking she is onvolved woth the others and is being duplicitous.

i think danielle is who she says she is.  i think the others took alex, because that's what they wanted, and left danielle.  i think they just basically ignore her.  i can't explain why she doesn't go near them, or try to get alex back, except i think she's afraid of them immensely.  she has just been surviving on her own for 16 years, trying to stay alive.  now the losties come and want to change everything, they want to interfere in the balance that the island has for her.  she is more scared, yet she is also a mother that wants her child.  she knows this is her only chance, so she is going along with them. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 07:38:29 PM by Ladybug »

Offline Wishbone

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2007, 07:33:43 PM »
If she's so worried about her child why didn't she ask Ben about her when he was in the net and why did she want to shoot Patchie straight away without even asking about her daughter - I know she's a bit mental but surely thats because of her child being taken away - wouldn't that be her first question?

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2007, 07:40:55 PM »
when ben got caught she thought he was henry gale right?  so why would she ask henry gale, a non-other, about alex?

sort of the same thing with patchy.  here he is living off in the middle of nowhere, maybe she thought he was like her?

i don't really know, i guess i just WANT to believe danielle more than anything.

Offline Wishbone

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2007, 07:48:00 PM »
Sorry Ladybug, this is where we disagree.

She told Sayid that ben would lie... a lot, she didn't believe he was Henry Gale - she didn't even know there really was a Henry Gale.

And now she knows Patchie is an other why is she wanting to kill him rather than ask how her daughter is?

Doesn't add up - maybe parts of her story are true but for now she's being crafty

Offline Cardacct

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2007, 07:49:29 PM »
I think Danielle just wants Alex back, but she doesn't want to start a war with The Others.  She knows she would die if she did.

Danielle knew Ben was one of the Others.  She knew Mikail was, too.

Offline Wishbone

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2007, 01:57:22 PM »
More likely to start a war by shooting him in the face than you are by asking a question - doesn't add up

Offline thebeann

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Re: Dharma's Human Experiments
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2007, 02:40:59 PM »
Danielle, whether withholding information or not, knows that Alex is on the Hydra island. She clearly has a contempt for 'The Hostiles' and it doesn't surprise me that she wants to kill Mikhail. Plus...let's face it...Danielle is a little...er...."off."

Re: the 'natives' (presumably, the Hostiles)...We know the look and layout of much of the island, so it is unlikely that a thriving "civilization" existed pre-Dharma. So I think we can safely assume that Dharma didn't come in and take over a small metropolis.

So that leaves (IMHO, and broadly speaking), two alternatives.

1. There was a small group of people on the island trying to survive (maybe a previous plane or boat crash) and possibly reproducing before Dharma came along. A small community similar to our own Lostie population - not uncivilized, but more a 'camp' than a society. Living in tents or a cave, no buildings or structures...a lifestyle that the evidence for which would easily be absorbed by the natural island environment in a short time (which is why there are no old ruins or houses or anything like that - other than the Dharma facilities).

2.  The pre-Dharma population was small but civilized group of people living on the island and doing something planned and specific before Dharma came along. Maybe even using the hatches (do we know for sure that they were built by Dharma/Hanso?). Doing what, I have no clue. Research? Using the island's magnetic properties for something? Multiple Parallel Universe portal? No idea.

Dharma comes in and easily 'absorbs' the natives. Even if Ben had been a wild child when Dharma arrived, he could have been turned into the civilized, polished man we know today. Perhaps he was even adopted by one of the Dharma founders (much like he adopted Alex). Wouldn't that be ironic?