Author Topic: Chess Game missing moves...  (Read 7834 times)

Offline AmazonMonkey

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Chess Game missing moves...
« on: March 08, 2007, 08:14:12 PM »

The Chess game Locke is playing before wins looks as if two moves are lying on the editing room floor.  It appears as if he moves Rook to C1 and then moves his other Rook to E1.  However if you notice the Rook he first moves is missing, and the Queen is moved to F2 when his second Rook moves into its E1 position.  Is you look that the list of moves you can see Queen to F2 and Rook to D1 which the White  Knight took out.  Not only that but when it says Checkmate, its actually not a check mate because White could move its Bishop to F1.  If the Rook takes F1, the White Knight can then take the Rook on F1, and the queen can't put the King in check from F2 because she will put herself in jeoapardy.   It looks like Locke didn't have much smile so coyly about.

Offline Magnetism

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2007, 05:27:40 AM »
When Locke gives checkmate to the computer, you are correct in that the position does not show checkmate but merely a check. The check can be defended by both Nf1 and Bf1.

However you are incorrect in saying that Locke didn't have much to smile about, because this position is actually mate in 2 moves.

If Nf1 then Rxf1+ Bxf1 Qxf1# (checkmate)
If Bf1 then Rxf1+ Nxf1 Qxf1# (checkmate)

On a side note, the first checkmate the computer gives to Locke is actually not even a check!

There are many, many other problems with the chess aspect of this episode, but I won't go into them unless someone is interested.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 05:34:42 AM by Magnetism »

mindsparkle

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2007, 06:58:58 AM »
Perhaps, a lot of things are what ever a person believes them to be... Locke believed he could win the game and in his eyes he did.

Offline surfmadpig

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2007, 09:02:23 AM »
First of all, someone definitely has to get some screen captures from the chess game moves we were shown.

As far as I saw on the episode, the chess game did look fishy, as if moves got lost in between shots etc. However, I think there could be an explanation for this. The first time Locke plays, he loses, because he thinks this is a regular computer chess game. Then Patchy tells him that this game is impossible to beat, and it cheats. But computers don't cheat, only humans do. This could have made Locke consider that this is no ordinary computer chess game, but a security device of sorts, which has to be given a password in the form of chess moves to gain entry to the computer's real program. Locke plays two more times, both of which he wins. So what happened? It's very likely that Locke observed the computer's moves, which turned out to be the same in each game (because it needed a code, it was not a regular chess game) and tried different moves to come up with that password.

In a related but very controversial note, I'm sure that Locke had some reason for entering 77, and knew what would happen. He would at least consider it possible that it's a self-destruction sequence trigger - if he didn't he'd be too stupid to have survived on the island. But that's a totally different topic.

Offline AmazonMonkey

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2007, 09:08:09 AM »
Yes mate in 2, they must have been using the Mercy Rule :)

for surfmadpig...

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l315/AmazonMonkey/S03E11_CHESS_RC1.jpg
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l315/AmazonMonkey/S03E11_CHESS_RE1.jpg

When Locke gives checkmate to the computer, you are correct in that the position does not show checkmate but merely a check. The check can be defended by both Nf1 and Bf1.

However you are incorrect in saying that Locke didn't have much to smile about, because this position is actually mate in 2 moves.

If Nf1 then Rxf1+ Bxf1 Qxf1# (checkmate)
If Bf1 then Rxf1+ Nxf1 Qxf1# (checkmate)

On a side note, the first checkmate the computer gives to Locke is actually not even a check!

There are many, many other problems with the chess aspect of this episode, but I won't go into them unless someone is interested.

Offline HanginWithMrEko

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2007, 09:51:14 AM »
Perhaps, a lot of things are what ever a person believes them to be... Locke believed he could win the game and in his eyes he did.

I dont think there is any mystical properties to the game, just a prop error. Win the game, get some options.

With that said, the moves are probably always the same... so the inhabitant of the hut would know what to put in, but the common person would have trouble.

mindsparkle

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2007, 11:17:26 AM »
Who in their right mind is going to set up a chess game or any game as protocol for help... wait, don't bleed to death -- I just have to win this game and we'll get the code... hang on dear! 

Offline Creflo

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 11:20:49 AM »
No.  I think Surf has a point.  Immediately after the ep aired, I posted a request for screen shots of the game because I just KNEW that moves were shown out-of-sequence.  It happened fast, but it seemed that parts of the game were missing or the AI was taking several moves at once.

Why bother showing the game screen so many times if there's nothing to take notice of?
Why would Patchy say that a chess game cheats?  How ridiculous of a notion is that?

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2007, 11:31:06 AM »
First of all, someone definitely has to get some screen captures from the chess game moves we were shown.

As far as I saw on the episode, the chess game did look fishy, as if moves got lost in between shots etc. However, I think there could be an explanation for this. The first time Locke plays, he loses, because he thinks this is a regular computer chess game. Then Patchy tells him that this game is impossible to beat, and it cheats. But computers don't cheat, only humans do. This could have made Locke consider that this is no ordinary computer chess game, but a security device of sorts, which has to be given a password in the form of chess moves to gain entry to the computer's real program. Locke plays two more times, both of which he wins. So what happened? It's very likely that Locke observed the computer's moves, which turned out to be the same in each game (because it needed a code, it was not a regular chess game) and tried different moves to come up with that password.

In a related but very controversial note, I'm sure that Locke had some reason for entering 77, and knew what would happen. He would at least consider it possible that it's a self-destruction sequence trigger - if he didn't he'd be too stupid to have survived on the island. But that's a totally different topic.
i agree with you!  i think the chess game was a lock and needed a code (in the form of moves or keystrokes) to open to view the video. 

patchy knew locke would become infatuated with this (locke loves his comuters!), but probably didn't think he would be able to solve it.  locke believed the "hostile" story, he wanted to communicate with the outside world, he tried each option, then put in 77 because they had been invaded by hostiles as far as he knew.

Offline Creampop

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2007, 01:13:31 PM »
it cheats maybe cus it stops the game when mate is inevitable, some computer games are like that weather the puter is wonning or the person, they will stop if there is no way to win...

Offline JBRam

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2007, 03:00:56 PM »

Offline deadpolarbear

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2007, 03:35:15 PM »
perhaps patchy was telling the truth when he said it cheats..
it could be cheating on behalf of both players... calling checkmate, when it really isnt,
then patchy would know that he could win, but its not an actual win..

although that doesnt explain why the 'candle' code sequences are shown, if it really isnt a win...

i dont know the rules of chess very well, so i mighty be completely off the point here, just a contribution :)

Offline arkham

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2007, 03:40:16 PM »
What about the security camera right in front the computer, must have someone whatching it somewhere...

Locke noticed the cam before start playing the game.

My point is, maybe someone was observing the place and probably connected to the computer, so instead an A.I. couldn`t be some real person playing with locke on the other side and turned the game easy to win?

Offline deadpolarbear

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2007, 03:57:43 PM »
i think that was more of a recognition of the camera that was used when they first saw patchy in the pearl station

Offline AmazonMonkey

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Re: Chess Game missing moves...
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2007, 12:39:39 PM »
i think that was more of a recognition of the camera that was used when they first saw patchy in the pearl station

I read somewhere it was blinking Morse code. -.-- aka "Y".  Could be coincidence I guess.  I need to go check this out and see if its true.