Author Topic: The Purge  (Read 11603 times)

Offline Schmoe

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2007, 11:14:23 AM »
I like Ladybugs theory.  Maybe some of the Dharma people broke away from "Corporate" and decided to do things their own way.  They hire people periodically under the guise of Dharma and scare them into doing what they want by telling them about the sickness and hostiles.  The Corporation sometimes sends people to try and infiltrate them, they have to be suspicion anytime someone new "crashes" on the island.  They also need a fence to protect themselves from old Dharma experiments gone bad (polar bears, Smokey).

Maybe it is like communism, they start out with the idea of being equal until the people in charge decide that they are more equal than other people and deserve privilege.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 12:03:10 PM by Schmoe »

Offline Ladybug

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2007, 11:22:19 AM »
The writers have said (in a podcast) that there are two groups of Others. Now, that could mean "two groups within themselves" (like when Juliet said that some of her colleagues were getting tired of Ben and so she wanted Jack to kill him).
this is what i think they mean by 2 factions of others. 
I like Ladybugs theory.  Maybe some of the Dharma people broke away from "Corporate" and decided to do things their own way.  They hire people periodically under the guise of Dharma and scare them into doing what they want by telling them about the sickness and hostiles.  The Corporation sometimes sends people to try and infiltrate them, they have to be suspicion anytime someone new "crashes" on the island.  They also need a fence to protect themselves from old Dharma experiments gone bad (polar bears, Smokey).

Maybe it is like communism, they are start out with the idea of being equal until the people in charge decide that they are more equal than other people and deserve privilege.
not my theory.  i think there's only one group.  dharma/others.  within this group (but still part of it) there is a sub-division of anti-ben people.  but they are not separate.  they are still the same group.  patchy, klugh, kelvin, radzinsky, are all part of the SAME group.  they are lower on the totem pole, more peons than important people (although i'm sure they have/had their importance too).

Offline horseshoe_crab

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2007, 11:23:41 AM »
Can anyone tell me what facts we know about the Hanso Foundation and its realtionship to Dharma?  I am leaning toward the two groups theory, however, the groups are Hanso Foundation and Dharma.  In the footage we've seen of Dharma, everything seems to be peace, love and enlightened reasearch (hence "namaste").  Hanso is apparently a war profitteer (Daddy Warbucks anyone?) and a recluse.  Wouldn't it make sense for HF to "hire" or fund the Dharma folks' research?  Maybe once they all got established on the island, the Hanso folks purged the Dharma members.  This would give us two distinct possibilities:

1. The Others (Ben, et al) are the surviving Dharma  members, having repelled Hanso's attacks

or

2. The Others are Hanso employees who have purged the Dharma members.  This would explain a few nagging questions.  I think Rousseau is a surviving Dharma member.  Assuming she is telling the truth, she was with a research team of scientists - much more Dharma than Hanso.  Also, having a multi-billion dollar company in the "real world" would explain the off-island transportation, the aggressive recruiting and the nearly flawless intelligence they had on some of the Losties.

Let me know if I've skipped over any connections, my seasons 1&2 memory is rusty!

Offline Schmoe

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2007, 12:07:03 PM »

Sorry Ladybug, I kind of ran two thoughts together there.  I like your theory of one group with sub division.  The rest were some random thoughts that rattle around in my head. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2007, 12:57:51 PM by Schmoe »

Offline jugdish

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2007, 01:17:24 PM »
The writers have said (in a podcast) that there are two groups of Others. Now, that could mean "two groups within themselves" (like when Juliet said that some of her colleagues were getting tired of Ben and so she wanted Jack to kill him).
this is what i think they mean by 2 factions of others. 
I like Ladybugs theory.  Maybe some of the Dharma people broke away from "Corporate" and decided to do things their own way.  They hire people periodically under the guise of Dharma and scare them into doing what they want by telling them about the sickness and hostiles.  The Corporation sometimes sends people to try and infiltrate them, they have to be suspicion anytime someone new "crashes" on the island.  They also need a fence to protect themselves from old Dharma experiments gone bad (polar bears, Smokey).

Maybe it is like communism, they are start out with the idea of being equal until the people in charge decide that they are more equal than other people and deserve privilege.
not my theory.  i think there's only one group.  dharma/others.  within this group (but still part of it) there is a sub-division of anti-ben people.  but they are not separate.  they are still the same group.  patchy, klugh, kelvin, radzinsky, are all part of the SAME group.  they are lower on the totem pole, more peons than important people (although i'm sure they have/had their importance too).

I'm with lady bug here. I agree that it is all one group. The are having a power struggle in that group but still one group.

Offline Gordon Shumway

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2007, 02:02:15 PM »
The writers have said (in a podcast) that there are two groups of Others. Now, that could mean "two groups within themselves" (like when Juliet said that some of her colleagues were getting tired of Ben and so she wanted Jack to kill him).
this is what i think they mean by 2 factions of others. 
I like Ladybugs theory.  Maybe some of the Dharma people broke away from "Corporate" and decided to do things their own way.  They hire people periodically under the guise of Dharma and scare them into doing what they want by telling them about the sickness and hostiles.  The Corporation sometimes sends people to try and infiltrate them, they have to be suspicion anytime someone new "crashes" on the island.  They also need a fence to protect themselves from old Dharma experiments gone bad (polar bears, Smokey).

Maybe it is like communism, they are start out with the idea of being equal until the people in charge decide that they are more equal than other people and deserve privilege.
not my theory.  i think there's only one group.  dharma/others.  within this group (but still part of it) there is a sub-division of anti-ben people.  but they are not separate.  they are still the same group.  patchy, klugh, kelvin, radzinsky, are all part of the SAME group.  they are lower on the totem pole, more peons than important people (although i'm sure they have/had their importance too).

I'm with lady bug here. I agree that it is all one group. The are having a power struggle in that group but still one group.

Agree with LB, everyone has disagreed with their employer at some point about a decision that was made.  Throw in the potential moral issues of the work that Ben and crew is doing and I can see how people a group could say heck with this, we're out of here.  Heck it wouldn't surprise me if Danielle is a fertility doctor and the kicked her out / or she left because of what was going on and Ben kept Alex and recruited Juliette to replace her.

We darn near had a revolt at my office when we went from assigned parking to 1st come, 1st serve.

Offline casino

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2007, 02:37:05 PM »
Just checking in here.  I usually just go through the main page instead of through the forums, but this is a really good discussion.  I'm surprised there is dissent about the two groups of Others.  I thought that had been made clear by the writers and through Ben repeatedly referring to them as "the good guys," implying that there was another group of not-so-good guys.

I am totally confused about this issue.  I still can't come up with a good theory on how the Others got to the place where they are today, inhabiting several of the Dharma facilities, dressed in rags one day and Dockers the next....it just doesn't make any sense.  They don't seem to want to kill people but they don't mind brainwashing and beating the crap out of them.  They continue to try to deceive the Losties even though they have to be sure that there cover is pretty much blown and that the Losties are going to assume pretty much everybody on the Island is hostile.  I just don't get it.

Offline LouE68

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2007, 04:10:28 PM »
The writers have said (in a podcast) that there are two groups of Others. Now, that could mean "two groups within themselves" (like when Juliet said that some of her colleagues were getting tired of Ben and so she wanted Jack to kill him).
this is what i think they mean by 2 factions of others. 
I like Ladybugs theory.  Maybe some of the Dharma people broke away from "Corporate" and decided to do things their own way.  They hire people periodically under the guise of Dharma and scare them into doing what they want by telling them about the sickness and hostiles.  The Corporation sometimes sends people to try and infiltrate them, they have to be suspicion anytime someone new "crashes" on the island.  They also need a fence to protect themselves from old Dharma experiments gone bad (polar bears, Smokey).

Maybe it is like communism, they are start out with the idea of being equal until the people in charge decide that they are more equal than other people and deserve privilege.
not my theory.  i think there's only one group.  dharma/others.  within this group (but still part of it) there is a sub-division of anti-ben people.  but they are not separate.  they are still the same group.  patchy, klugh, kelvin, radzinsky, are all part of the SAME group.  they are lower on the totem pole, more peons than important people (although i'm sure they have/had their importance too).
Well we know for fact from what Patchy said(if we can take that at face value) There were others on the island for a long time before Dharma, very long time. We also know Juliet who is an other, was not originally from the island. So, what the writers said is true, but may not be waht we are thinking as two factions of the others...just a play on their words. Just something to think about.

Offline goober

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2007, 04:11:45 PM »
I'm just waiting for the flashback that shows the BINGE before the Dharma Purge  :P

Offline thebeann

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2007, 05:31:06 PM »
Well we know for fact from what Patchy said(if we can take that at face value) There were others on the island for a long time before Dharma, very long time. We also know Juliet who is an other, was not originally from the island. So, what the writers said is true, but may not be waht we are thinking as two factions of the others...just a play on their words. Just something to think about.

I tend to buy this too...that they are two separate and distinct groups. IF (big if) we take Mikhail's statement toward the end to be true (he said he was not Dharma but everything else he said was true) then there would be an original group ("Hostiles") and then the Dharma group. We don't yet know the dynamics...maybe they were "one group" at one time, a cooperative or alliance of the scientific kind. "Hey, we'll come in and use you're special island, you can help us out for the greater good." Then something goes wrong. The alliance/cooperation is broken and suddenly the "Hostiles" are born.

Offline daisyrain

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2007, 06:48:52 PM »
See I don't think any of them are still Dharma, I think that the others had been there all along and when Dharma set up all of there stuff the others attacked and took over the facilities and kept the guise up to receive the food drops, communication etc Kelvin was an other pretending to be Dharma, same as Patchy.

Offline Gordon Shumway

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2007, 08:06:12 PM »
See I don't think any of them are still Dharma, I think that the others had been there all along and when Dharma set up all of there stuff the others attacked and took over the facilities and kept the guise up to receive the food drops, communication etc Kelvin was an other pretending to be Dharma, same as Patchy.


I don't think I buy the none of them are Dharma theory.  I'm sticking with the factioning of the original group due to philosophical differences.  This explains why food continues to arrive and why life in otherville appears to be normal with modern conveniences - because there still is a group there operating as intended.

I do believe that Patchy recorded, or received the recording of, the World Series game then gave it to Ms  Klugh who pony expressed it too the Pala Ferry where it was put on a boat or sub and subsequently shown to Jack.  That being said, the communications facility has not been down for "a long time", if at all (until Locke blew it to high heaven).

Offline jules778

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2007, 11:06:26 PM »
so if we take what Patchy said there are basically two groups
1) Indians= Hostiles-  Like American Indians lived on the island and had control of island
2) Cowboys= Dharma- Came in and took over the island like they owned it.
 Like american indians the hostiles lived on the island peacefully until Dharma came in and started to take control. Maybe the Hostiles didn't like what was happening and went to war against Dharma (per Patchy). Also according to Patchy there may be no one in Dharma left, and the hostiles have taken control. But are we to believe that the Others=Hostiles. And if so... how are the Hostiles getting all the dharma supplies. I would think that they would get the supplies if the research was still going on, and Dharma was getting results. But clearly Dharma isn't getting results anymore.Hence the notebooks in the field.  Why would they continue to "flush money down the drain"? Not only are they sending food, but they are also sending Vaccines (for what we are still not sure).  I just don't get it. I don't understand why if the others are not Dharma they would do this. So if the others = Dharma... did their mission change and if so what is? Since they are getting the drops they must be doing something right?

Sorry for the rambling. I am thinking out loud.

PS. GJ and I resolved our friendly banter on page one of this thread... no need for everyone else to get upset. I know people love GJ and didn't take any offense to anything. I Am so glad for the new friendships!
« Last Edit: March 10, 2007, 11:30:31 PM by jules778 »

scrod

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2007, 11:24:10 PM »
I think at this point that it is one group.  The Purge may not have been a bloody coup, but just a push-out of the peaceful, DeGroot-lovin folks.  Who were replaced by the corporate hired hands.  Probably no accident that there are several ex-military types. 

That means I kinda agree with Juggy.  AHHHHHHHHHH!

Offline Ladybug

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Re: The Purge
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2007, 11:50:10 PM »
so if we take what Patchy said there are basically two groups
1) Indians= Hostiles-  Like American Indians lived on the island and had control of island
2) Cowboys= Dharma- Came in and took over the island like they owned it.
 Like american indians the hostiles lived on the island peacefully until Dharma came in and started to take control. Maybe the Hostiles didn't like what was happening and went to war against Dharma (per Patchy). Also according to Patchy there may be no one in Dharma left, and the hostiles have taken control. But are we to believe that the Others=Hostiles. And if so... how are the Hostiles getting all the dharma supplies. I would think that they would get the supplies if the research was still going on, and Dharma was getting results. But clearly Dharma isn't getting results anymore.Hence the notebooks in the field.  Why would they continue to "flush money down the drain"? Not only are they sending food, but they are also sending Vaccines (for what we are still not sure).  I just don't get it. I don't understand why if the others are not Dharma they would do this. So if the others = Dharma... did their mission change and if so what is? Since they are getting the drops they must be doing something right?

Sorry for the rambling. I am thinking out loud.

PS. GJ and I resolved our friendly banter on page one of this thread... no need for everyone else to get upset. I know people love GJ and didn't take any offense to anything. I Am so glad for the new friendships!
this is exactly my problem with there being 2 groups.  (i do like the cowboys & indian analogy though)  if there are no dharma, then why do they still get supplies?  if there are no natives how do you explain ben?  (he's way to freaky to have been born somewhere else)  and if he is the only native, then why is he in charge?  if he's the only dharma why is he in charge? 

see, now i'm rambling....

ps  i think you're pretty awesome jules.