Multiple Parallel Universes -MPU's (new theory from a new member...long)

[LostGirlDeb]

Absolutely Brilliant!!!  I loved this theory the most
And I was one of the ones that brought up the time issue about living in past present and future at the same time, but this seals the deal for me.

My only problem with this is that the "average viewer" will not be able to grasp this and it is hard for even me to wrap my brain around it entirely.

Like I said in my post it was explained to me many many years ago and I thought I had understood it but it is still very hard to grasp.  So with that being said, how will the average viewer get anything out of this if they are not able to understand. Unless they
have written this in layers sorta like the dream explanation will suffice for the average viewer and for those who want to take it one step further there is the MPU theory or something similar.
Another question that I have is this,
If the final outcome is predetermined then, to quote you:Perhaps the island is the "consciousness of the universe" and wants to be destroyed, it is the destiny of the universe to destroy itself. Perhaps ol' Smokey is the protector of that consciousness, trying to influence events and keep man from intervening on this path of destruction. But what if man can alter events and intervene, thus saving the world? Only one number in the equation needs to be changed to make this happen, and perhaps Alvar Hanso and even DHARMA are on to this, but don't have just the right equipment to pull it off.


How do we alter events in hopes that the outcome will change?  It seems that if the outcome is already predetermined then nothing can be changed, or if it is, then in the end the outcome will still be the same No?

I really really loved this post and the way you thought it out and explained in such a simple manner.  I wish you had not waited a year to come and post on this site
Great post!!

[T Mack]

I loved this theory the most

Thanks you are very kind.

My only problem with this is that the "average viewer" will not be able to grasp this and it is hard for even me to wrap my brain around it entirely.

I've thought about this as an 'excuse' as to why the writers would not do this, but it's a cop out either way.  You can't have a guy (Desmond) say "I saw into the future and Charlie died".  And then have Desmond go back in his past and remember events from the future and then turn around and say, oh well, sorry we didn't mean to do that.  I think that's what the producers meant by saying "this is a game-changer", because they can't step back from this without losing all credibility.

Unless they have written this in layers sorta like the dream explanation will suffice for the average viewer and for those who want to take it one step further there is the MPU theory or something similar.

  That said, you may be correct - and for those "SKATE" lovers and Jack's tattoo obsessors there may be a way they can wriggle out of this and just provide very superficial answers that they can live with.  Personally I don't think the casual viewer matters, they will accept anything.  It's the critical viewers- those of us on this site and others- whom they have to satisfy with a home run.  They can hit a single or a double for the casual viewer.

Another question that I have is this, If the final outcome is predetermined then, How do we alter events in hopes that the outcome will change?  It seems that if the outcome is already predetermined then nothing can be changed, or if it is, then in the end the outcome will still be the same No?

That's what the universe, the island consciousness, Ms. Hawkings or Smokey or whoever is pulling the strings want us to think.   If we can't change things, then we must accept our fate.  But what if we can?  What if Locke didn't lose faith and stop pushing the button? What if Desmond didn't follow Kelvin out of the hatch and cause the 'system failure'?
What if Desmond is able to change enough events (or that one specific key event) that causes the Valenzetti Equation to change.  Will he save the world?  If you were given a chance- just a sliver of a chance - to save the world, or just accept your fate and keep doing what you were told, what would you do?  What do you have to lose if the world is going to end anyway?

I really really loved this post and the way you thought it out and explained in such a simple manner.  I wish you had not waited a year to come and post on this site
Great post!!

  Thanks, I guess I shouldn't have spent so much time on that ABC board where all of the trolls, slackers and losers muck the place up!

[LostGirlDeb]

Oh I see so you are saying that we can change the course and it doesn't always have to
conclude the same way.
I was thinking that no matter what you do the final outcome will always be the same because it is "destiny" or...."fate" or "predetermined" which would make me want to live the journey the best way possible and stay out of the outcome.
Interesting...
Thanks for taking the time to answer all of my questions
I am a MPU believer!! ( I think I always was)

OK one more question, how does MPU relate to time as in past present and future?
Do they in fact happen at the same time in a different dimension /thread?  simultaneously?

[T Mack]

Oh I see so you are saying that we can change the course and it doesn't always have to
conclude the same way.

Yes, I changed my theory to reflect this, I realize now that part was a bit confusing.  However, Ms. Hawkings and others who may control things don't want us to believe this (or know this).  Because it would interfere with their plans- the end of time.

I was thinking that no matter what you do the final outcome will always be the same because it is "destiny" or...."fate" or "predetermined" which would make me want to live the journey the best way possible and stay out of the outcome.

I think this exact line of thinking has been setting up a major plot element between Locke, Desmond, Jack and maybe the Others to determine "the one true way".  Do you have to accept your fate, or can you change it, thus 'course correcting' the way of the universe?

Interesting...Thanks for taking the time to answer all of my questions
I am a MPU believer!! ( I think I always was)

NP, I think I am too!

OK one more question, how does MPU relate to time as in past present and future? Do they in fact happen at the same time in a different dimension /thread?  simultaneously?

If I only knew I might be as smart as Mr. Hawkings.   But I'm betting that they are all happening 'at once', but not simultaneously.

[LostGirlDeb]

Oh I see so you are saying that we can change the course and it doesn't always have to
conclude the same way.

Yes, I changed my theory to reflect this, I realize now that part was a bit confusing.  However, Ms. Hawkings and others who may control things don't want us to believe this (or know this).  Because it would interfere with their plans- the end of time.

I was thinking that no matter what you do the final outcome will always be the same because it is "destiny" or...."fate" or "predetermined" which would make me want to live the journey the best way possible and stay out of the outcome.

I think this exact line of thinking has been setting up a major plot element between Locke, Desmond, Jack and maybe the Others to determine "the one true way".  Do you have to accept your fate, or can you change it, thus 'course correcting' the way of the universe?

Interesting...Thanks for taking the time to answer all of my questions
I am a MPU believer!! ( I think I always was)

NP, I think I am too!

OK one more question, how does MPU relate to time as in past present and future? Do they in fact happen at the same time in a different dimension /thread?  simultaneously?

If I only knew I might be as smart as Mr. Hawkings.   But I'm betting that they are all happening 'at once', but not simultaneously.

OK that last comment made my head hurt again!!   I'm not gonna EVEN ask how that can be...

[T Mack]

OK that last comment made my head hurt again!!   I'm not gonna EVEN ask how that can be...

Sorry to clarify maybe?

The threads of time I suppose could all be ongoing at once, in other words they are happening at the same time, but to be simultaenous would imply to me that events were all "synched up" together so that the time was traveling along the same thread or line in just exactly the same continuum, on the same day or even the same clock hour.  We saw Desmond's mind 'travel', but it was into both the past and present, so the time wasn't synched up along the same time/date/day.   But hey, I have no idea really, it's just all healthy speculation at this point.  Headache to be sure!

[LostGirlDeb]

OK that last comment made my head hurt again!!   I'm not gonna EVEN ask how that can be...

Sorry to clarify maybe?

The threads of time I suppose could all be ongoing at once, in other words they are happening at the same time, but to be simultaenous would imply to me that events were all "synched up" together so that the time was traveling along the same thread or line in just exactly the same continuum, on the same day or even the same clock hour.  We saw Desmond's mind 'travel', but it was into both the past and present, so the time wasn't synched up along the same time/date/day.   But hey, I have no idea really, it's just all healthy speculation at this point.  Headache to be sure!

LOL OK then and yes headache continues but that makes a bit more sense to me and I LOVE IT!!!
thanks!

[Cowboypants]

Honest to God, T Mack, I have been thinking about this same theory since I watched this epi again yesterday.  I even told my husband that I thought I almost had part of the show figured out.  I have been doing a lot of "light" reading on Wikipedia about multiple universe theories, but you have obviously been working on this theory much more than I have.  Well done.  I will have to re-read when I have more time.

Again, please forgive me for not having this very thought through, but I also thought that is why Jack wanted to hear Kate retell his story when she was safe.  He is aware, on some level, that he or Kate could be on another "branch" of the universe, if you will.

I am also toying with the idea that perhaps the island is a place where some of the characters have been stuck, even twice.  That could explain the twins, but no cloning.  And why the Others weren't totally surprised by the plane crash.  That they even had a plan as it happened.  In other words, I think the Others are completely aware of the multiple universes.  They have seen these Losties before.

And forgive me if my memory is not accurate on this one, but weren't there discrepancies as to where we saw people sitting on the plane and where they were supposed to be sitting?  It's been so long, I could be way off on this one (on a lot, for that matter).

I have to keep thinking about this.  Too many loose end to consider.  Really great post, though.

My head, too, is spinning...

[thebeann]

I was just struck by a thought...the idea of an alternate universe and the concept of "time is different" are key in my favorite book of all time, "The Talisman" by Stephen King and Peter Straub. For anyone not familiar, the main character Jack (and others) can "Flip" into this other world...where time and space are different from our own world. Traveling a few hundred feet in the other world might bring you a mile in our world. An hour there might be half a day here. I've heard rumors that TPTB have suggested that "time isn't the same on the island." Maybe the Island and the "real world" have a relationship akin to that of the two worlds in "The Talisman."

In "The Talisman" there is no time travel per se. But you might take an afternoon nap and find that several days have passed when you get back to the here and now.

It would be a way to explain Walt's aging when we once again see him. I suppose that the same could be true in reverse. Time could go by much more quickly on the Island than in some other alternate universe.

It will be interesting to watch upcoming episodes with this theory in mind. But...I do think there is more to it than just MPU.

[Geronimo Jackson]

also an homage to Slaughterhouse Five more so as Billy was stuck in time likeDes was.Mittletoe spelling off where Juliet went about job in Portland is an anagram for lost time.

[T Mack]

Thanks Cowboy, I think we have to be careful though, with this time theory, to not try to apply it to too many instances of what could be otherwise explained as 'prop mistakes', 'continuity errors', or just simply filming mistakes.  Also plot devices such as Jack asking Kate to "tell me the story I told you when you know you are safe", are just instances of Jack trying to 'out think' the Others, because they have been lied to so many times.

When presented with it just right in our face like we witnessed in "Flashes" the other night, I think we have to give some credence to the theory.  I don't think that it explains all, nor do I think the theory is perfect, but some fishy is going on with time on/off our island.

One other thing to watch out for- later this season, the producers have claimed that they will factor in the Tsunami of 2004, which affected the Indian Ocean and South Pacific.  If they do observe this weather event, that WILL establish time as being the same as time on other parts of OUR Earth.  It is rumored that the Losties will have to experience the Tsunami on the island, making it occur roughly some time in late Dec. 2004.  Which as you remember the Tsunami struck on Christmas Day.  By all indications then this would establish time as even (on the show) with time on Mother Earth.  There is no way that time could be any different for the Losties than it is for anyone else, if the Tsunami is shown later this season.  That is a huge weather event that could not be altered by man, the Others, DHARMA or Hanso.

I think we have been shown that the only instance time is altered, is when one of the Losties is NOT on the island- in a flashback or in a parallel universe.

[Snowy Joe]

soooo many long posts... i'm never coming to this thread again...lol

[Cowboypants]

Thanks Cowboy, I think we have to be careful though, with this time theory, to not try to apply it to too many instances of what could be otherwise explained as 'prop mistakes', 'continuity errors', or just simply filming mistakes.  Also plot devices such as Jack asking Kate to "tell me the story I told you when you know you are safe", are just instances of Jack trying to 'out think' the Others, because they have been lied to so many times.

When presented with it just right in our face like we witnessed in "Flashes" the other night, I think we have to give some credence to the theory.  I don't think that it explains all, nor do I think the theory is perfect, but some fishy is going on with time on/off our island.

One other thing to watch out for- later this season, the producers have claimed that they will factor in the Tsunami of 2004, which affected the Indian Ocean and South Pacific.  If they do observe this weather event, that WILL establish time as being the same as time on other parts of OUR Earth.  It is rumored that the Losties will have to experience the Tsunami on the island, making it occur roughly some time in late Dec. 2004.  Which as you remember the Tsunami struck on Christmas Day.  By all indications then this would establish time as even (on the show) with time on Mother Earth.  There is no way that time could be any different for the Losties than it is for anyone else, if the Tsunami is shown later this season.  That is a huge weather event that could not be altered by man, the Others, DHARMA or Hanso.

I think we have been shown that the only instance time is altered, is when one of the Losties is NOT on the island- in a flashback or in a parallel universe.

I understand what you are saying, T Mack, but I also have to believe that there have been clues laid throughout the 3 seasons. Admittedly, though, I still have a long way to go to think all of my ideas through.

[T Mack]

soooo many long posts... i'm never coming to this thread again...lol

Your brain is like a muscle, if you use it more it will grow, and grow, and grow...

[Snowy Joe]

my brain is none of your business... you will have no brain if you continue on with that talking....

JUST JOKING....

i know its just i can't read long things unless i get into it and i can understand it...lol