Author Topic: Biblical Refrences  (Read 7510 times)

Offline Ladybug

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Biblical Refrences
« on: February 09, 2007, 02:47:15 PM »
This show never ceases to amaze me! 

We already knew about Jacob, even though we don't really KNOW who Jacob is, or much about him, we have just heard the name mentioned.  In the Bible Jacob means, 'he who grabs for something’ (he was the younger of twins, he had his hand on the heal of his brother esau), and it can also mean 'deceiver'.  I think we can see this Jacob as a deceiver already, if he is HIM, or at least a Big Man on the island, he has to have ben deceptive at one time or another.  In the Bible Jacob fell in love with Rachel, the much more beautiful but younger sister of Leah.  Rachel & Leah's father, Labon, did not want Jacob to marry Rachel.  (Oh and I forgot to add that Rachel is the daughter of Jacob's mother's brother.  Yes, that's right they are cousins.)  He told Jacob that he had to work for him for 7 years to earn Rachel's hand.  At the end of 7 years Labon gave Jacob Leah.  He then told Jacob that he had to work another 7 years for Rachel.  At the end of those 7 years he did give Rachel to Jacob.  (sidenote-  what man would wait 14 years for a woman now??) 

They lived happily ever after.  Okay, not really.  Leah had babies.  Male babies, and lots of them, which was good in Biblical times, except Jacob still did not love her.  Rachel couldn't have babies, they tried, and tried, no babies.  (Sounds like another Rachel doesn't it?)  Rachel gave her maid to Jacob to have babies for her, and she did.  Then Leah gave her maid to Jacob to have babies, and she did.  (Jacob has NO fertility problem!)  FINALLY, Rachel bore Jacob a son.  Joseph.  She later got pregnant again, and died during childbirth.  This son was named, Benjamin.  Benjamin means 'son of my sorrow.'  He was the youngest of Jacob's 13 sons.

Okay, so here's some of my thoughts:

*Jacob is the leader of the others.
*Jacob is a twin. 
*Ben is Jacob's son (His FAVORED son).
*I don't know how I feel about a Jacob/Rachel connection, I just don't know.  It's obvious (or at least to me) that logically Ben can not be Rachel's son.  (Unless something really funky is going on). 
*I think Jacob has LOTS of kids.  He doesn't have a fertility problem, but for some reason the women do.  That's why they have Juliet there.
*I think we will find out Rachel (Juliet's sister) died in childbirth just like Rachel (in the Bible).  I also think we will find out this child is on the island.

Okay, my brain hurts.  What do ya'll think?

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Offline miketrapasso

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2007, 05:00:43 PM »
That was a great post!! We have known about all of the Biblical references and such for a while, but you are the first to really put it together into a concise theory.   ;)

Offline JBRam

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2007, 05:46:38 PM »
This show never ceases to amaze me! 

We already knew about Jacob, even though we don't really KNOW who Jacob is, or much about him, we have just heard the name mentioned.  In the Bible Jacob means, 'he who grabs for something’ (he was the younger of twins, he had his hand on the heal of his brother esau), and it can also mean 'deceiver'.  I think we can see this Jacob as a deceiver already, if he is HIM, or at least a Big Man on the island, he has to have ben deceptive at one time or another.  In the Bible Jacob fell in love with Rachel, the much more beautiful but younger sister of Leah.  Rachel & Leah's father, Labon, did not want Jacob to marry Rachel.  (Oh and I forgot to add that Rachel is the daughter of Jacob's mother's brother.  Yes, that's right they are cousins.)  He told Jacob that he had to work for him for 7 years to earn Rachel's hand.  At the end of 7 years Labon gave Jacob Leah.  He then told Jacob that he had to work another 7 years for Rachel.  At the end of those 7 years he did give Rachel to Jacob.  (sidenote-  what man would wait 14 years for a woman now??) 

They lived happily ever after.  Okay, not really.  Leah had babies.  Male babies, and lots of them, which was good in Biblical times, except Jacob still did not love her.  Rachel couldn't have babies, they tried, and tried, no babies.  (Sounds like another Rachel doesn't it?)  Rachel gave her maid to Jacob to have babies for her, and she did.  Then Leah gave her maid to Jacob to have babies, and she did.  (Jacob has NO fertility problem!)  FINALLY, Rachel bore Jacob a son.  Joseph.  She later got pregnant again, and died during childbirth.  This son was named, Benjamin.  Benjamin means 'son of my sorrow.'  He was the youngest of Jacob's 13 sons.

Okay, so here's some of my thoughts:

*Jacob is the leader of the others.
*Jacob is a twin. 
*Ben is Jacob's son (His FAVORED son).
*I don't know how I feel about a Jacob/Rachel connection, I just don't know.  It's obvious (or at least to me) that logically Ben can not be Rachel's son.  (Unless something really funky is going on). 
*I think Jacob has LOTS of kids.  He doesn't have a fertility problem, but for some reason the women do.  That's why they have Juliet there.
*I think we will find out Rachel (Juliet's sister) died in childbirth just like Rachel (in the Bible).  I also think we will find out this child is on the island.

Okay, my brain hurts.  What do ya'll think?

[/color]
Juliet doesn't look much younger in the flashback. I'd say that the time period between Juliet's flashback and the present LOST time is at MOST 5 years.

I don't think we've seen any five year olds on the island, have we? Maybe the kids in the Other 48 Days...

Another note on Jacob meaning the "deceiver."

Jacob was the second born. In Bible times, the first born son got the majority of the land. This right was called "birthright." Jacob's father liked Esau (Jacob's older twin brother) better. When Esau was old and dying, he was going to bestow the birthright on Esau, but Jacob tricked him into giving Jacob the birthright.

I'll let you read out how, since it isn't that important to the discussion.

Did Jacob somehow trick someone into giving him the company?

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2007, 05:50:39 PM »
we haven't seen any children on the island.  except aaron.  (which is a WHOLE other Bible story)  i think the baby is on the island, we just haven't seen him (or her) yet. 

i know the jacob/esau story, but i don't know how it relates to the LOST.  i just wonder if this is where "bad twin" will come in, if it does.

Offline JBRam

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2007, 06:00:22 PM »
we haven't seen any children on the island.  except aaron.  (which is a WHOLE other Bible story)  i think the baby is on the island, we just haven't seen him (or her) yet. 

i know the jacob/esau story, but i don't know how it relates to the LOST.  i just wonder if this is where "bad twin" will come in, if it does.

Interestingly enough ESAU was the bad twin, not Jacob ;D

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2007, 06:02:10 PM »
we haven't seen any children on the island.  except aaron.  (which is a WHOLE other Bible story)  i think the baby is on the island, we just haven't seen him (or her) yet. 

i know the jacob/esau story, but i don't know how it relates to the LOST.  i just wonder if this is where "bad twin" will come in, if it does.

Interestingly enough ESAU was the bad twin, not Jacob ;D
that's a matter of opinion.  jacob did deceive his father to receive the blessing intended for his brother. 

Offline JBRam

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2007, 06:05:59 PM »
we haven't seen any children on the island.  except aaron.  (which is a WHOLE other Bible story)  i think the baby is on the island, we just haven't seen him (or her) yet. 

i know the jacob/esau story, but i don't know how it relates to the LOST.  i just wonder if this is where "bad twin" will come in, if it does.

Interestingly enough ESAU was the bad twin, not Jacob ;D
that's a matter of opinion.  jacob did deceive his father to receive the blessing intended for his brother. 
Well, assuming that the twelve tribes of Israel come from Jacob and not Esau, and that Esau's line actually caused a lot of trouble for Jacob's line (when Moses was leading his people back to the promised land), we can probably assume that Jacob is the "good" twin ;D

Offline PrincessLeia

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2007, 02:24:37 AM »
The Biblical account of Jacob & Esau was a major theme in the book "Bad Twin."

While Jacob was the evil, deceptive twin, ultimately the birthright & blessing went to him.  He stole it really.  But the Bible does say that God "loved Jacob" & "hated Esau."  He brought about his promises through the line of Jacob.


Offline snowyjoe

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2007, 04:17:04 AM »
at the camp i just went to ... we learnt bout laban and rebecka and all that Genesis stuff... its all quite interesting...

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2007, 05:00:13 PM »
Sometimes I wonder if TPTB throw out these names knowing that most people will associate them with biblical references... and maybe that is just to throw us off or influence our thinking in the wrong direction??? 

Offline thebeann

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2007, 05:11:58 PM »
There ARE a lot of time/time travel references in LOST. Even 3X7 had the "Brief History of Time" thing going on. I'm not a big believer in any of the Time Travel theories, but...to play devil's advocate...I'm sure someone could think of a way that Ben could be Rachel's son if time travel were a consideration.

Or...the names could be purely coincidental and just a way of leading us poor viewers astray.

I will just state right here that if we get introduced to any character's related to Juliet that are named Romeo or Mercutio, I'm quitting LOST.

Offline JBRam

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2007, 09:55:47 PM »
There ARE a lot of time/time travel references in LOST. Even 3X7 had the "Brief History of Time" thing going on. I'm not a big believer in any of the Time Travel theories, but...to play devil's advocate...I'm sure someone could think of a way that Ben could be Rachel's son if time travel were a consideration.

Or...the names could be purely coincidental and just a way of leading us poor viewers astray.

I will just state right here that if we get introduced to any character's related to Juliet that are named Romeo or Mercutio, I'm quitting LOST.
What's wrong with Mercutio? I love that name! lol

I don't believe in time travel either... but TPTB are getting awful close to stepping over that boundary...

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2007, 10:03:34 PM »
i don't really think that ben is rachel's son.  (if she is there has to be some serious aging or time travel going on!)  i am just amazed by the biblical references.

Offline PrincessLeia

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2007, 01:21:05 AM »
Sometimes I wonder if TPTB throw out these names knowing that most people will associate them with biblical references... and maybe that is just to throw us off or influence our thinking in the wrong direction??? 
I do know that TPTB have stated that they do choose the names carefully & the the name "Jacob" is decidedly religious in significance.  :-\ Whatever the heck that means. :-\ lol

Also...another Genesis name to throw in here....Isaac.  On LOST- Isaac of Uluru, & in the Bible, the father of Jacob.

Offline Ladybug

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Re: Biblical Refrences
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2007, 12:36:40 PM »
And how do Ruth and Naomi now fit into all this?  (Catch-22)  (I attribute this to PL, I didn't even realize the connection of their names)

What about Daniel/Danny?  (This shout out goes to my girl Des8, the MASTER theorist)  Could he be brother to Benjamin/Ben just like in the Bible?