Author Topic: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room  (Read 21859 times)

Offline Creflo

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2007, 03:10:29 PM »
I posted this last night and it seems to have vanished...sorry if you've read it already.

(Biblical) Jacob was a bad twin.  He fathered Benjamin.

In "A Clockwork Orange", what Alex was exposed to is called The Ludovico Technique.



The music being played in Alex's case became important later because it associated the nausea with his favorite composer
("Ludwig Von").  Karl probably likes techno.

I think Karl's crime was probably being in love with the boss' daughter.  For this, he may have made some poor choices such as being out after curfew, entering restricted areas, or using DHARMA's name in vain.


Oh, and did anyone notice one image of a face that was only visible as the camera faced AWAY from the screen?  It was reflected against Karl or something.  I'll pull it up later when possible.


Offline JBRam

  • Island Native
  • *
  • Posts: 30614
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2007, 06:11:47 PM »
I'd like to see the entire segment (shots of the screen anyways) slowly or frame by frame...

There has to be some interesting stuff there.
I went through it in slow mo. None of the images jumped out at me except that as they're carrying Carl out, just as the room goes out of view, suddenly the film cuts to a bearded man in what looks like a science lab.  He's sitting at a lab bench looking down at some sort of piece of equipment. I didn't recognize him. It's possible it's Hanso, or someone else we've seen. Hopefully we can get a screen cap.  Beyond that, the images seemed generic (though it's possible they have some sort of combined meaning).  There were 5 total written statements. 

First: "Plant a good seed and you will joyfully gather fruit"

Second: "Everything Changes"

Third: "We are the causes of our own suffering"

Fourth: "God loves you as He loved Jacob"

Fifth: "Think About [slide changes] Your Life"

I suppose I'll stop lurking and toss in my two cents.
The third statement, "We are the causes of our own suffering" is extremely Buddhist, especially because of the use of the word "suffering". (The Four Noble Truths of Buddhism go something like 1. Living is Suffering 2. Our desires cause our suffering 3. Cessation of desiring will cause the cessation of suffering 4. The way to stop desiring is to follow the eightfold path)

The "God loves you as He loved Jacob" line is certainly Jewish or Christian, but I can't figure anything out about the other lines. Is there a chance that these are all related to different religions?
The first quote is a Christian idea. In the new testament, Jesus talks about the good tree bearing good fruit (and a bad tree bearing bad fruit).

Offline Creflo

  • Survivor
  • ***
  • Posts: 606
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2007, 09:49:44 PM »
The face I was referring to is surely DeGroot.

A 3 second clip is on its way.

I'll rework it.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2007, 09:41:00 AM by Creflo »

Offline jugdish

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 16716
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2007, 11:04:10 PM »
your link took me to some terrible loop that was very hard to get out of.

Offline Ladybug

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 20841
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2007, 11:45:21 AM »
It seems like there was a bunch of these rooms going down the hallway. I wonder if this is where the Tailies kids are being kept?

Maybe Walt did not get this treatment because he was “special”.


One of the first thoughts I had, was whether this room could be similar to the room Walt was threatened with back in Season 2.
i wondered the same thing.  maybe walt was kept in it BECAUSE he was special.  they wanted to wipe his memories (brain wash him) so that he would think what THEY wanted him to think, therefore couldn't/wouldn't harm them with his thoughts.

Offline firemanandlostfan

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 191
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2007, 12:52:04 PM »
It is pretty obvious to me that Carl is the typical "bad boy" that Ben does not want his daughter to be associated with.  First in the Season opener they have him in the cage by Sawyer and then after the failed escape attempt it was the "Happy room" for reprograming.

Offline uofapiglet

  • DHARMA Work Man (or Woman)
  • *****
  • Posts: 4063
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2007, 01:05:41 PM »
It is pretty obvious to me that Carl is the typical "bad boy" that Ben does not want his daughter to be associated with.  First in the Season opener they have him in the cage by Sawyer and then after the failed escape attempt it was the "Happy room" for reprograming.

I totally agree, but I wonder what he did that would make them put him in the "happy room". I mean if he's so integral to their community why did they let him escape with Kate&Sawyer, if they threatened Alex they would kill him if she didn't stay on Alcatraz... And in that case why didn't they just kill him from the start, if Ben is so against Karl and Alex being together? Someone brought up the theory that Karl might be a sleeper or spy... but I'm not exactly sure that's the case... However, I definitely think there is an important reason as to why Karl is still alive and why he was put in the room to be brainwahsed to begin with... those images and sayings had an ultimate behavioral purpose, I'm sure...

Has anyone considered that maybe they exposed him to some subliminal messages during the Ludovico sequence, what do you think?

Offline Ladybug

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 20841
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2007, 01:08:58 PM »
i don't think karl is a "bad" boy.  i think he and alex want to be together.  ben (and juliet) are just trying to keep them apart, and are going to do what it takes to do that. 

Offline jugdish

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 16716
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2007, 01:15:37 PM »
Juliette does not like everything that is going on with the losties. She knows what they are doing to Carl and does not like it. She knows Ben can forgive her for letting Carl go, he is not that important, but Ben would not forget letting Alex go. SO Juliette made the decision on Carl but will not cross the line with ALex

Offline JBRam

  • Island Native
  • *
  • Posts: 30614
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2007, 02:45:52 PM »
Does anyone else find it interesting that this is a Romeo and Juliet situation? (Karl and Alex)

Offline jugdish

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 16716
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2007, 03:15:39 PM »
no

Offline JBRam

  • Island Native
  • *
  • Posts: 30614
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2007, 03:27:38 PM »

Offline jugdish

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 16716
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2007, 03:29:26 PM »
I don't, they are teenagers with a disapproving dad. Very conmmon

Offline Ladybug

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 20841
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2007, 03:40:18 PM »
I don't, they are teenagers with a disapproving dad. Very conmmon
i agree jug.  it's just to common.  i just wonder if there is an UNCOMMON reason as to why he dissapproves.  ie.  he doesn't want them to reproduce, alex won't be his "little girl" anymore, maybe karl knows something he doesn't want alex to know or vice versa, etc.  who knows.  but i think there is a bigger REASON as to why they need to be apart, i don't find it interesting that they are the only 2 teens (or at least that we have seen) and they want to be together.

Offline miketrapasso

  • Red Shirt
  • **
  • Posts: 235
    • View Profile
Re: The Brainwashing Fun Time Room
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2007, 04:56:46 PM »
This seems unlikely, and unfourtunatly I cannot check it myself because I apparently have trouble setting a DVR.  But several people have mentioned that you can see a picture of a man reflected on Karl as Sawyer is helping him out of the chair.  When this came on the screen, both my father and I said: "Was that Osama bin Laden?"  Sounds crazy, I know, but it really looked like him from what I can remember.  Am I alone on this one?