Author Topic: The many signs of Juliette  (Read 12521 times)

Offline Ladybug

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2006, 11:54:16 AM »
great catch!  i didn't even notice the clothes, or where she was filming at.  i think the clothes are relevent (sorry jugdish).  i just think it is to big a detail to go unnoticed by TPTB.  i think they put her in the same clothes for a reason.  what that reason is i don't know.  did they know that jack crashed and survived immediately?  hmmm....  i have to think on this.  welcome to the boards warhog!

Offline beanblog

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2006, 11:55:50 AM »
Great thread!
I'm not so sure I buy the theory that this was all pre-planned, but I a friend mentioned something interesting to me.  If Ben and Juliet planned to have Jack see the X-rays, the scene where Ben confronts Juliet about it would not make sense.  they were out of earshot from Jack at the time.  At the same time, I don't think Juliet is trying to Kill Ben - I think it's just another elaborate con to make Jack think he has some kind of power.  Here's how I think it went:

Ben and Juliet have a big plan to con Jack until Cole gets shot and they actually need him for something.  The X-rays slip up caused them to have to change their plans.  Now that Jack knows part of the truth, they have to be sure that they will still be able to trust him to do the surgery.  The new part of the con (the cue cards) are just a test to see if Jack has it in him to actually kill Ben.  Once they are able to verify that he wont do it, the operation will go ahead as planned.

Just my 2 cents!

Offline demra

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2006, 12:21:27 PM »
I think that Ben and juilette have had seperate plans the whole time to break the 3 of them  and that she is undermining as best that she can Bens authority

there is  a split in the others with ben being the main leader and juilette trying to sieze control 

as to the clothes they do look like the  same clothes  as when the plane crashed she could have made this video anytime before they had captured Jack  knowing that it was the ultimate plan of bens to bring him there for his surgery   then it gets complicated  as to how to show jack the x-rays or somehow inform Jack of Bens condition

i agree that it was not Bens plan for jack to see them  but  to try and turn/break jack so he would be willing to operate on him

bottom line is Juilet is working against Ben 

unless this is one very elaborate plan  and after the exchange between her and ben  i dont think it is  so.....

nice catch on the clothes 
it helps me with my theory  ;D


Offline jugdish

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2006, 12:43:42 PM »
great catch!  i didn't even notice the clothes, or where she was filming at.  i think the clothes are relevent (sorry jugdish).  i just think it is to big a detail to go unnoticed by TPTB.  i think they put her in the same clothes for a reason.  what that reason is i don't know.  did they know that jack crashed and survived immediately?  hmmm....  i have to think on this.  welcome to the boards warhog!

How could it be important. Jack never saw her in those clothes before. She wore them in them in her little village. Not getting any importance here.

Offline Ladybug

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2006, 12:59:22 PM »
i just think the producers stuck her in the same clothes, so we would notice.  therefore important.

Offline ozman776

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2006, 01:06:57 PM »
If in fact juliette is going out on a "BIG WHIM" and sees this as the opportunity to OFF ben and take over control... then i doubt this video was made anywhere near the time of the "CRASH"... firstly because there is no way of ever knowing that ben would even use a video recorder to show jack anything (red sox win).. so how could she ever know to record something if she doesnt know how she'd ever be able to have him see it... so we have to assume that she came up with the idea ad lib after she saw a way to communicate with jack without big brothers camera picking up on it... secondly if as ben says in 3x1 or 3x2.. "if you co-operate with what we want you to do for us/me" then i will take you HOME personally".. is bens psycholigical way of letting jack know that if he does BOTCH the operation he's doomed to spend eternity on craphole island, to dispell any other offers he may get from anyone else... preknowing that juliette had in fact made the tape, and planned to use it...maybe she has a hidden camera in her house???? ( got that idea from how everyone has to knock and wait for ben when he's in his voyuer room)... and finally as we hear in the previews for next week...jack screams out that he NEEDS to get the "hell" off this island... and "you think that i trust you and that i will just do the surgery and HOPE that you let me go?"... and in that few seconds of ranting..a blurred figure is off to the side of ben... cant be sure its juliette, but ben only seems to speak to jack when she alone is there noone else...

my 3c worth

Offline demra

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2006, 01:28:04 PM »
great catch!  i didn't even notice the clothes, or where she was filming at.  i think the clothes are relevent (sorry jugdish).  i just think it is to big a detail to go unnoticed by TPTB.  i think they put her in the same clothes for a reason.  what that reason is i don't know.  did they know that jack crashed and survived immediately?  hmmm....  i have to think on this.  welcome to the boards warhog!

How could it be important. Jack never saw her in those clothes before. She wore them in them in her little village. Not getting any importance here.

it is importaint because WE saw the close and it gives us a possible time line for her plan 

Offline Ladybug

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2006, 01:49:11 PM »
great catch!  i didn't even notice the clothes, or where she was filming at.  i think the clothes are relevent (sorry jugdish).  i just think it is to big a detail to go unnoticed by TPTB.  i think they put her in the same clothes for a reason.  what that reason is i don't know.  did they know that jack crashed and survived immediately?  hmmm....  i have to think on this.  welcome to the boards warhog!
thanks for the support!

How could it be important. Jack never saw her in those clothes before. She wore them in them in her little village. Not getting any importance here.

it is importaint because WE saw the close and it gives us a possible time line for her plan 

Offline demra

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2006, 01:51:51 PM »
i like the idea that she has had a plan from the time she got  info on the survivors

Offline uofapiglet

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2006, 02:58:11 PM »
Well, we know it was premeditated by Juliet, because she put up the x-rays for Jack to see.  Juliet was very shrewd to use the occasion of Col's death to show these to Jack.  When Ben asked about showing the x-rays, she didn't deny it - she turned the tables on Ben.

Juliet is a great "actress", as you can see from her ability to draw in Jack and to fool Ben.

Oh - and she might be wearing the same clothes because they shot the scenes at the same time to save them from having to prep that set again.  Too bad she didn't get a scar at some time so we could pin-point.

However, all that matters is that Juliet pre-planned the coup, and they could be going back and forth to the village every night (we lost 2 days here - remember when Sayid asked how long Eko had been that way?).


I agree with DB that it just tells us that Juliet has been plotting behind Ben's back all along, the word being "premeditated"... but as far as when the video was shot, i'm still unsure... she probably just put the same clothes on and made the tape when the opportunity arose to meddle with Jack...  lets all hope she gets rid off the tape and burned the sign cards cuz we are in for a treat if Ben ever finds out about her plan... exciting stuff...

Anyway, great post WartHog!!! Welcome... and enjoy the forum...

Offline Creflo

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2006, 03:02:44 PM »
It's a fun idea, but let's whittle away the more improbable bits until we have the most likely scenario.

- Ben saw his own x-rays long ago and saw the obvious tumor.
- He found out a spinal surgeon fell from the sky
- He concocted a plan to abduct that Dr and other characters for their particular usefulness
- This convoluted plan involved coercing Jack into wanting to do the surgery1
- Juliet saw an opportunity and began her own counter-play
- She manipulated events so that Jack would see the X-rays2
- Ben was duped into confirming that the X-Rays were his.

I think Jack is going to murder Ben and be sorry (literally...as in repenting) about it later.  Ben was probably keeping the fractured Others under control in the way only a tyrant can...through unpleasantness.  Without him, things are going to get worse for the Losties.




1Whenever the show addresses confidence games, this is a predominant theme: trick them into wanting to go along.
2The hood could've been left on until Jack entered the operating room. Wasn't she the one doing the reassuring when others were concerned about him seeing the medical area they were in? 

Offline uofapiglet

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2006, 03:20:47 PM »
It's a fun idea, but let's whittle away the more improbable bits until we have the most likely scenario.

- Ben saw his own x-rays long ago and saw the obvious tumor.
- He found out a spinal surgeon fell from the sky
- He concocted a plan to abduct that Dr and other characters for their particular usefulness
- This convoluted plan involved coercing Jack into wanting to do the surgery1
- Juliet saw an opportunity and began her own counter-play
- She manipulated events so that Jack would see the X-rays2
- Ben was duped into confirming that the X-Rays were his.

I think Jack is going to murder Ben and be sorry (literally...as in repenting) about it later.  Ben was probably keeping the fractured Others under control in the way only a tyrant can...through unpleasantness.  Without him, things are going to get worse for the Losties.




1Whenever the show addresses confidence games, this is a predominant theme: trick them into wanting to go along.
2The hood could've been left on until Jack entered the operating room. Wasn't she the one doing the reassuring when others were concerned about him seeing the medical area they were in? 

Haha... I like that you tried to sum it up concisely... love the footnotes...

But IMHO I don't think Jack is capable of killing someone on purpose, especially during a botched operation.... he's a doctor that takes pride in his surgical skills and tries to help whenever he can... he even has the humble integrity to feel guilty when he can't save lives... He sees this operation as a bargaining opportunity and that is why he asks/approaches Ben about his situation... And of course, he remains a moral but man of science cringing at the thought of fate when Ben mentioned it...

but the show is known for surprises so maybe we'll see another side of jack we never knew before... we'll have to wait and see what he does or chooses to do...

Offline ozman776

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2006, 03:32:57 PM »
The mentality of a surgeon can never be compromised by emotion.. much like a police officer is empowered to bring a criminal before the justice system rather than what most of us would do and just blow his/her brains out for what they did... im thinking that jack knows that his only way off freakyville island is with BENS help, but he wants the reassurances up front somehow... im imagining he will probably tell ben about what juliette showed/offered him.... if "I" was in this situation, i'd feel more comfortable doing what i know i can do, than to somehow strategically screw it up and always wonder who saw what ....How dead  am i,if they put 2 & 2 together and off me for killing there leader... too much risk involved in trying to make it look like an accidental death during surgery... plus jacks too much of a nice guy.. dont see an evil streak in him ... not yet anyway.. and for those that will post after this that he was a stalker??? he had every opportunity to chase down the guy and beat him senseless at the police station after he got bailed out.. he didnt, hes a nancy boy at heart... he may think it, but would never go through with it...

Offline Creflo

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2006, 04:18:02 PM »
I think the fact that they've made a point of showing daddy botch an opertaion lays the groundwork for Jack to do the same.

He may, at the very least, render Ben paralyzed with the flick of a knife.

Offline tweedle

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Re: The many signs of Juliette
« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2006, 04:29:24 PM »
I have a feeling that Juliette isn't being honest with us.  I think she is trying to get control of the Others.  We've known from the first episode of this season that there is conflict between her and Ben.
I'm beginning to think that Ben believes in what they are doing on the island and he believes what he is doing is the right thing.  I think Juliette is disgruntled for some reason and is trying to get control, we know that there are "other" others on the island (Patch Man) could she be involved with them?  A spy from their side that is sent to watch over what Ben is doing?  
Juliette was very clear to mention that she was going to show Jack "To Kill a Mockingbird".  Why?  Are there any of you literary types out there can draw a connection?  I know that the character Atticus defends a black man who was falsely accused of rape in the deep south, there are the creepy neighbors of Scout and her brother (I think his name was Jim) who actually end up saving Scouts life.  Is this a reference to the relationship between Ben, Jack and Juliette?
Who knows?  I do believe however that Juliette will turn out to be the bad guy.