Author Topic: The Sub and Two Islands  (Read 12484 times)

Offline Ladybug

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2006, 04:13:00 PM »
Could the Hydra station be the sub itself?  I feel like I saw the Hydra station logo somewhere near the cages too, so I could be mistaken.  Just a thought I had.
if the hydra station is the sub, and juliette, benry, and jack are in the hydra, then wouldn't they be in the sub?  so why would benry come tell juliette the sub was there if they were IN the sub?

Offline Socrates

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2006, 04:17:17 PM »
Good point.  I will rewatch this scene.  Just thinking about the sub and the hydra station this morning brought this thought to mind.

Offline Sweet Old Lady

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2006, 04:37:51 PM »
where did this whole em field obscures vision theory come up? sounds a bit silly..

also silly: floating islands..


Jordanoth, Why are floating islands silly?  In the San Francisco Bay there is a floating island.  It's called Alcatraz Island and was the site of a prison for many years.  Of all the things Ben could have said to Sawyer to explain the island's size and all the analogies he could have used, he picked Alcatraz, a floating island.  There's a reason for that.  I believe that one of the reasons the island is so hard to find is that it drifts.  We shall see..... 


Offline Socrates

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2006, 04:47:03 PM »
Alcatraz is a floating island?  I have lived in San Francisco for 8 years now and haven't seen the island move at all.  Are you possibly thinking of man-made islands...like treasure island (also in San Francisco Bay...were an old Navy Base used to be located)?

Offline Sweet Old Lady

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2006, 04:54:16 PM »
Alcatraz is a floating island.  It has been anchored somewhat.  The fact that it floats causes problems for even the most experienced yacht racers in SF Bay because the currents are different around a floating island than they are around solid land.  Here's what I posted previously about it:

OK.  I've been searching the internet and found out that floating islands do exist in the real world.  They can be natural or man-made.  Alcatraz Island in San Francisco's Bay is a floating island.  Here's an exerpt from an article I found on yacht racing written by Gary Mull (BAY & DELTA YACHTSMAN, April 1995 issue, pages 70 ‑ 76):

"It was in the great storm of 1772 that the Spanish discovered that the promontory on which they had built their fort was not attached to the mainland, but actually seemed to be what is called now in geological circles a floating island. In fact, they had built their fort on what apparently was a large pumice plug, blown loose at some time from a volcano in some gigantic eruption. There are theories that the volcano in question is Mount Rainier, which was certainly far more active in prehistoric times than it is today.

Pumice, as everyone knows, is a fairly light, very porous rock having a density of just about 58 pounds per cubic foot, or a little more than 10 percent lighter than seawater. In other words, this stone can actually float, as is usually demonstrated in high school physics class. In fact, as it turns out, what we call Alcatraz Island is not an island at all, but a very large hunk of some prehistoric eruption which is composed mainly of pumice at its core but, of course, with crusts of heavier igneous rocks in its shell. It isn’t as buoyant as a ping-pong ball, but it is buoyant enough, as the Spaniards discovered in the 1772 storm, when the waves washed what we now call Alcatraz Island off the beach and moved it farther east, even closer to the Bay entrance.

Luckily, for some reason, it seems fairly stable in its present “upright” position, and the Spanish fort was not damaged, although the garrison was pretty shaken psychologically to find themselves winding up six miles further east at the end of the storm."


So what if Crap-hole Island was formed when an undersea volcano spat out a ginormous chunk of pumice with an iron core many eons ago?  And birds brought seeds to the island in their droppings?  And the currents and winds washed sand up onto the shores?  It could happen.....


« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 04:56:35 PM by Sweet Old Lady »

Offline Socrates

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2006, 05:10:18 PM »
Interesting.  Thanks SOL.  I will have to investigate this.  Lived here all this time and had no idea.

Offline Sweet Old Lady

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2006, 07:50:49 PM »
Ben mentioned a tour.  Maybe you could take the tour.  I'll bet it's interesting.  Another artcle by Gary Mull, which I can't find now, mentioned that since 9/11 the custodians of Alcatraz have begun to deny that it floats.  He suspected that the denial might have something to do with maintaining the security of the island, but I don't get it.

misspensinger

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2006, 08:07:03 PM »
I remember discussing floating islands prior to this last season.  Below are a few links:
http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=890.msg6304#msg6304 The mysterious island
http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=1466.msg27490;topicseen#msg27490  LOL, I guess you and I were the ones discussing it SOL

Offline Sweet Old Lady

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2006, 08:12:38 PM »
Yep.  That was us.

Offline Socrates

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2006, 08:29:46 PM »
I've been on the Alcatraz tour and no one mentioned the floating part.  Just talked about the history of the island's use (i.e. military base, prison, indian occupation, etc.).  Still, I am intrigued by your floating comments SOL.

Offline JBRam

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2006, 08:41:38 PM »
Could the Hydra station be the sub itself?  I feel like I saw the Hydra station logo somewhere near the cages too, so I could be mistaken.  Just a thought I had.
Sledge has a pic in the Gallery for the Hydra logo seen in epi 3x01. It appeared next to Sawyer's cage on something that looked like a ?pipe.

Alcatraz is a floating island.  It has been anchored somewhat.  The fact that it floats causes problems for even the most experienced yacht racers in SF Bay because the currents are different around a floating island than they are around solid land.  Here's what I posted previously about it:

OK.  I've been searching the internet and found out that floating islands do exist in the real world.  They can be natural or man-made.  Alcatraz Island in San Francisco's Bay is a floating island.  Here's an exerpt from an article I found on yacht racing written by Gary Mull (BAY & DELTA YACHTSMAN, April 1995 issue, pages 70 ‑ 76):

"It was in the great storm of 1772 that the Spanish discovered that the promontory on which they had built their fort was not attached to the mainland, but actually seemed to be what is called now in geological circles a floating island. In fact, they had built their fort on what apparently was a large pumice plug, blown loose at some time from a volcano in some gigantic eruption. There are theories that the volcano in question is Mount Rainier, which was certainly far more active in prehistoric times than it is today.

Pumice, as everyone knows, is a fairly light, very porous rock having a density of just about 58 pounds per cubic foot, or a little more than 10 percent lighter than seawater. In other words, this stone can actually float, as is usually demonstrated in high school physics class. In fact, as it turns out, what we call Alcatraz Island is not an island at all, but a very large hunk of some prehistoric eruption which is composed mainly of pumice at its core but, of course, with crusts of heavier igneous rocks in its shell. It isn’t as buoyant as a ping-pong ball, but it is buoyant enough, as the Spaniards discovered in the 1772 storm, when the waves washed what we now call Alcatraz Island off the beach and moved it farther east, even closer to the Bay entrance.

Luckily, for some reason, it seems fairly stable in its present “upright” position, and the Spanish fort was not damaged, although the garrison was pretty shaken psychologically to find themselves winding up six miles further east at the end of the storm."


So what if Crap-hole Island was formed when an undersea volcano spat out a ginormous chunk of pumice with an iron core many eons ago?  And birds brought seeds to the island in their droppings?  And the currents and winds washed sand up onto the shores?  It could happen.....


VERY interesting...I'd like to see this carried out on the show, actually...

scrod

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2006, 08:58:19 PM »
Would there be any other unique properties to a floating piece of volcanic sputum?

Speaking totally out of my butt, I can't imagine the island with that elevation actually floating.  Displacing that much dirt and rock with bouyant pumice would take a lot of pumice!

Offline dcnole

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2006, 09:03:20 PM »
Could the Hydra station be the sub itself?  I feel like I saw the Hydra station logo somewhere near the cages too, so I could be mistaken.  Just a thought I had.
My guess is that the Hydra station has entrances on both islands, with an underwater tunnel connecting them.  This would explain how Jack, Sawyer and Kate could get to the 2nd island without knowing they had gone to a new island (hearing a boat, hearing the engines of a submarine, getting the sensation of being on the water).  It would also explain how Goodwin and Ethan could get from the second island to the main island so quickly when dispatched by Benry on the day of the crash, if we assume (as I believe we should) that the main Others village is on this second island.  And since we know Jack's cell is under water, presumably, it's located in section off of the tunnel portion of the Hydra station, located under the span of water that Sawyer viewed seperating the two islands.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 09:05:32 PM by dcnole »

scrod

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2006, 09:18:13 PM »
I wonder if that tunnel thing is the case DCNOLE, the only issue would be using a sub to sneak over to the dock and on the boat would be more plausible to escape detection from Sayid's fire.

Offline esque0

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Re: The Sub and Two Islands
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2006, 09:24:53 PM »
My guess is that the Hydra station has entrances on both islands, with an underwater tunnel connecting them.  This would explain how Jack, Sawyer and Kate could get to the 2nd island without knowing they had gone to a new island (hearing a boat, hearing the engines of a submarine, getting the sensation of being on the water).  It would also explain how Goodwin and Ethan could get from the second island to the main island so quickly when dispatched by Benry on the day of the crash, if we assume (as I believe we should) that the main Others village is on this second island.  And since we know Jack's cell is under water, presumably, it's located in section off of the tunnel portion of the Hydra station, located under the span of water that Sawyer viewed seperating the two islands.

They could have just blindfolded them, put them on a boat, and taken them to Island2.  The Losties already believed the Others were using boats to travel from one part of the main Island to the other, so that's what they would assume was happening to them.  They would have no reason to believe they were being taken to a completely different island.

As for Otherville, if you believe it's on Island2, then you also need to believe not only that Ben was lying about the size of the island (since even just the valley containing Othersville is bigger than twice the size of Alcatraz), but that the Tailies didn't notice the huge island within sight of their crash site, and the land connecting Otherville with the Tailie site in the 3.1 long-shot was an optical illusion planted by the producers to trick us.