Author Topic: The Psychological Skinner Box  (Read 9762 times)

Offline CastawayCayley

  • DHARMA Work Man (or Woman)
  • *****
  • Posts: 4855
    • View Profile
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2006, 12:20:43 AM »
Interesting ideas. I am not so sure that Kate has a child, but I bet that Ben knew Kate was a fugitive. I am sure that Ethan found out a lot before the Marshall died. We didn't really see what he was doing before he took Claire.

I'm not taking any sides here but when I read this I remembered a scene in the first season where someone said to Jack, "If you want to keep a secret, don't tell the fat guy"  Hurley helped with the Marshall and knew Kate was a fugitive when Ethan was still in camp.

Offline Desmond8MyPopRocks

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
    • View Profile
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2006, 03:26:52 AM »
I'm not taking any sides here but when I read this I remembered a scene in the first season where someone said to Jack, "If you want to keep a secret, don't tell the fat guy"  Hurley helped with the Marshall and knew Kate was a fugitive when Ethan was still in camp.
CC:
Great post; I'd forgotten about that one....

cheers
*Des8

Michelle13

  • Guest
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2006, 11:28:02 AM »
Howdy.  First off, let me begin by saying that I really enjoyed last night's epi.  Many said they felt it lacked, while I do not share that same sentiment.  Here are my personal observations and why I named this topic as I did.

The Skinner Box:

After Sawyer, Jack and Kate were taken by Benry and TheOthers, each was placed in an environment which would best, initially, at least test their immediate survival skills and motivational triggers to escape.

First we see Kate, who is stripped of her regular attire and forced to wear a dress which she is clearly not used to wearing.  In other words, she was stripped initially of her comfort zone and made to feel quite vulnerable.  Benry makes her put on the handcuffs which serve as a reminder to her of her status as that of a fugitive--that she's not free, or may never be "free."

Next we see Jack, who is in his own glass Skinner Box--but his initial introduction to TheOthers' testing is more psychological, to determine his motivational triggers, to see what his trust issues are and what will ultimately be a trigger to "break" him--hence Juliette is his first contact and I don't believe it to be any surprise that she closely resembles Sarah.  What inevitably transpires between Juliette and Jack is the equivalent of a mindscrew and a few tests to see what his triggers are.

For example, there is the food issue which was used to determine his trust level of Juliette.  There was also the water room--which I believe was used to determine whether Jack would ultimately save Juliette, or would he let her drown to save himself?  In the end, Juliette knew Jack went to Australia to retrieve DrDrunk's body and used it as a point of reference to start off with...  Ultimately, his key motivator turned out to be Sarah.  Juliette also appealed to Jack's clinical/medical training as a way to break through trust barriers.  It would have done TheOthers no good to put Jack in a zoo cage as they did Sawyer, primarily because Jack's instinctst aren't that of an "in the wild" survivor, as they are Sawyer's.

Sawyer:
Sawyer was stuck into the zoo Skinner Box--which was the most basic and rudimentary  of experiments to see what he'd do to survive or escape.  Like both Jack and Kate, he was demeaned in the end by MrFriendly over the fish biscuit.  The rock was deliberately placed outside Sawyer's cage to see how long it'd take him to figure out how to work the Skinner Box for sustenance.  I believe Carl was an Other who was put there to measure Sawyer's trust level of another in captivity--and also to see if Sawyer would follow another's lead to escape.

If you remember, Carl tells Sawyer after he lets him out of the cage specifically to "run that way" and I believe it was to see if Sawyer would think for himself, under pressure would he do what someone else told him to do in a moment of crisis, and would he immediately look for his friends, or save himself?

In my opinion, the rest are symantecs, or methods to a means to determine each's initial psychological stance as of that moment in time.

I also think Kate was "presented" to Sawyer just as animals are in a zoo in a mating facility.  Also to observe their interaction with eachother.  Had Kate initially asked about Jack, I believe she'd have been paired up with Jack.

By the end of last night's epi, Jack was broken down, Kate was broken down (although we do not yet know what occurred before she was transferred to the zoo), and Sawyer was pretty much still intact until he saw how shaken Kate was.

What will be each's vulnerability next?  Who knows.

Just my observations and ideas, so flame away :)

staring in the mirror in a dress cheers
*Des8


Des, I was skeered to read this thread...I do not have the intelligence level that you have so it was something I didn't feel like dealing with (trying to understand the big words and all...) so I stayed clear...until today.  ;)

You basically said everything I was feeling but with the use of "skinner box" terminology. I put it as Animal VS Human...Jack was in dolphin/shark tank so to me it symbolized his intelligence and also his mean streak. Sawyer in the bear cage so that symbolized that he was not as bright as Jack (dolphins etc) but able to track down his prey and attack with force and still survive. And then our pretty Kate...in her new duds...being "presented" to Sawyer and later (if I could be so bold as to say it was a given that jack would get to see his beauty in this dress as well as sawyer) to Jack...for what reason is my real question...to drive the boys mad??  ;) At Zoo's, during "season" don't they tease and stir up the animals by putting them in different areas yet close enough to drive them crazy?? Hmm. Wonder what's up with all this? lol

Offline Desmond8MyPopRocks

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
    • View Profile
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2006, 02:51:34 PM »
Chelle:
you goofball, I'm no more intelligent than the next person.  For instance, I like your idea and how you present it re: the choice of where each of our Losties was placed.  You have great ideas and I enjoy reading your posts.

I actually had to rewatch the epi before I ever posted because I was so blown away premiere night.  While most weren't and complained about it, I thought there was so much to consider....  and I loved the premiere.

cheeeeeers doll
*Des8

Offline demra

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 13584
    • View Profile
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2006, 02:58:54 PM »
i agree  Des  the premire was very good

i think many people were expecting way to much
expecting something more like a season ender
you can't  give everything away in the first hour of  the season

Offline Desmond8MyPopRocks

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
    • View Profile
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2006, 03:00:44 PM »
i agree  Des  the premire was very good

i think many people were expecting way to much
expecting something more like a season ender
you can't  give everything away in the first hour of  the season

Exactamundo my friend
cheers
*Des8

Offline LostGirlDeb

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 14531
  • Live Together Die Alone
    • View Profile
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2006, 03:16:33 PM »
You are correct Jim!
I was one of those expecting SO much more and you are right that they can't give away too much or else why would we even watch.
I always have "expectations" that is one of my major flaws.

I still have not gone back to re-watch it although I am now more than ever excited to do so, especially since reading all of these wonderful posts

Chelle that is a good post and a great way to put it
I love this thread and I think Des has nailed everything right on so far
I wish I was that perceptive.

Offline Desmond8MyPopRocks

  • In the Loop
  • ****
  • Posts: 1756
    • View Profile
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2006, 03:39:07 PM »
You are correct Jim!
I was one of those expecting SO much more and you are right that they can't give away too much or else why would we even watch.
I always have "expectations" that is one of my major flaws.

I still have not gone back to re-watch it although I am now more than ever excited to do so, especially since reading all of these wonderful posts

Chelle that is a good post and a great way to put it
I love this thread and I think Des has nailed everything right on so far
I wish I was that perceptive.


sidebar:  LostD and I were so excited to see the S3 Premiere and pissed that most of you got to see it before we saw it on the Correct Coast  Lucky dogs.

LostD: thanks, and it's really worth going back to rewatch.  I loved it, I thought it was fantastic, and the possibilities are really endless now with where this story can go.

cheers doll
*Des8

Michelle13

  • Guest
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2006, 04:19:29 PM »
:-* Des, you really know how to flatter me into a stupor  :-*

Good point about the opener epi Jim...I had never looked at it that way.

Offline demra

  • Dharma VIP
  • *******
  • Posts: 13584
    • View Profile
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2006, 04:37:27 PM »
that is what i do  Chelle  look at the world from odd angles 

might just be the perminent crick on my neck that does that though
hehehehe

Michelle13

  • Guest
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2006, 04:39:24 PM »
LOL silly boy...lol

Offline JBRam

  • Island Native
  • *
  • Posts: 30614
    • View Profile
Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2006, 02:25:33 PM »
bump for the "clever bear" thread.