Author Topic: The Psychological Skinner Box  (Read 10041 times)

Offline lostatsea

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2006, 06:08:25 AM »
poprocks

thats an interesting theory


I like it

Offline uofapiglet

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2006, 07:13:38 AM »
Loved the observations... I graduated with a b.s. in psych and enjoyed the life-size human-conditioning experiment scene with Saywer in the first episode... At first, I also thought the premier was weak... but when you think back on everything that happened, as uneventful as it might have seemed, you can tell that the writers are definitely flexing their muscles in setting up the new direction that the season is headed towards.

I think you're right about Sawyer's breaking point... but is he man enough, or unselfish enough, to sacrifice himself if only to save Kate? (in Charles Dickens' "A Tale of Two Cities" one of the characters gives himself up at the end of the book to save his love) Afterall, he does "love her", but I predict that the writers are gonna throw us a curveball somewhere down the line this season and we'll learn something surprising about Sawyer's character and his relationship to Kate.

Offline Desmond8MyPopRocks

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2006, 07:59:39 AM »
Loved the observations... I graduated with a b.s. in psych and enjoyed the life-size human-conditioning experiment scene with Saywer in the first episode... At first, I also thought the premier was weak... but when you think back on everything that happened, as uneventful as it might have seemed, you can tell that the writers are definitely flexing their muscles in setting up the new direction that the season is headed towards.

I think you're right about Sawyer's breaking point... but is he man enough, or unselfish enough, to sacrifice himself if only to save Kate? (in Charles Dickens' "A Tale of Two Cities" one of the characters gives himself up at the end of the book to save his love) Afterall, he does "love her", but I predict that the writers are gonna throw us a curveball somewhere down the line this season and we'll learn something surprising about Sawyer's character and his relationship to Kate.

Piglet:
great observation...but remember TheOthers aren't done with our Losties yet--whom TheOthers took they thought were the leaders, the brightest of stars.  They overlooked Sayid and Jin--and even moreso Sun.  Once the three come looking for our Losties, it'll be an entirely different Skinner Box--and not one TheOthers assumed would ever take place, I believe.

I'd really dig it to see a reverse Skinner Box for TheOthers.  You have fantastic ideas and I hope you stay with us on this board and continue to post.

cheers
*Des8

Offline Erin

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2006, 09:09:30 AM »
I agree that Sawyer was in a human-sized Skinner box, but I see the settings that Jack and Kate were in as more of a military "break-down" chamber of sorts.  If memory serves, wasn't there some mention of BF Skinner in S2, or some reference to him?
Do you think the breaking of these guys are to eventually assimilate them into the "Others" society?
I would guess "breaking" Sawyer would consist of making him conform, and putting him in a skinner box, operantly conditioning him, would be his form of being broken.

Offline jugdish

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2006, 10:24:56 AM »
Watched it again last night and I was a little harsh on the first episode. I enjoyed it much more than I did the first time. The begining was so awesome that I wanted that to continue for the whole show.

Des my posting buddy. I agree with you almost completely on this post. I posted right away that Kate was put their as a sexual temptation for sawyer. You nailed Jack situation dead on. She broke him with Sarah and now will start going in for the kill. Sawyer was awesome trying to figure out the skinner box. He went right at it.

My only disagreement is with Karl. I think he is a disillusioned other who is being punished for his disedent views. He came right out and told Saywer he knew he was on a plane and he had other survivors in a camp. A plant would of acted like he was a tailie.

But it is a great post and I am with you on the psychological experiment.

Offline Ladybug

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2006, 10:45:46 AM »
des, you rock!!!  i completely agree with you.  (let's chalk that up for the history books)  even on carl.  i think, that is the only issue i am wavering a little on.  i'm stuck between you and juggie. 

i think sawyer will break when he sees kate being hurt physically.  that is his crutch.  i don't think the physical abuse will break kate, (it looks like she is already broken, by whatever means) but sawyer watching the abuse of kate will agree to anything.  i don't think physically harming sawyer would do any good either.

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2006, 11:05:27 AM »
I do not agree with you.  I believe Kate's breaking point was Benry bringing up something from Kate's past that no one else knows about--and I stick by my speculation that she has a child out there somewhere she hasn't yet told anyone about.

Either they have the kid, or they know where the kid is--THAT is the one thing that would break her into the little bits of her former self we saw last night, imho.
cheers
*Des8

I agree with Des on this..I can't really see anything else right now that would/could break Kate
And I do think she has had a kid at some point in her life

BlackrockBob

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2006, 11:38:46 AM »
Interesting ideas. I am not so sure that Kate has a child, but I bet that Ben knew Kate was a fugitive. I am sure that Ethan found out a lot before the Marshall died. We didn't really see what he was doing before he took Claire. We also don't know if the Others can communicate with the outside world. If they can, they could have easily found out everything on these three. As far as we know, they drugged them and asked them questions before we see them on the Season 3 opener.

Tom used Kate as bait before and that was the only way they could make Sawyer and Jack behave. I am sure that Ben will use Kate to get to Sawyer. Sawyer isn't the selfish conman the pretends to be.  Sawyer won't break, but he can be controlled through Kate.

If Saiyd gets captured, it will be because they threaten Sun. Neither Jin nor Saiyd would let them harm Sun or the baby. You know they would love to get their hands on another pregnant woman... Is Kate pregnant with Sawyer's baby? 


Offline JBRam

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2006, 11:48:34 AM »
I don't have a lot of time to write right now, and I'll get back to this. I just want to say that this is probably the best theory of the cages out here so far. Wonderful job, Des8.

I think Kate is already broken and Jack is almost broken. ALMOST. It will happen, but not quite yet.

Sawyer has a ways to go, but Kate will definately be his weak point. I'll be back later.

Offline jugdish

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2006, 11:52:25 AM »
Interesting ideas. I am not so sure that Kate has a child, but I bet that Ben knew Kate was a fugitive. I am sure that Ethan found out a lot before the Marshall died. We didn't really see what he was doing before he took Claire. We also don't know if the Others can communicate with the outside world. If they can, they could have easily found out everything on these three. As far as we know, they drugged them and asked them questions before we see them on the Season 3 opener.

Tom used Kate as bait before and that was the only way they could make Sawyer and Jack behave. I am sure that Ben will use Kate to get to Sawyer. Sawyer isn't the selfish conman the pretends to be.  Sawyer won't break, but he can be controlled through Kate.

If Saiyd gets captured, it will be because they threaten Sun. Neither Jin nor Saiyd would let them harm Sun or the baby. You know they would love to get their hands on another pregnant woman... Is Kate pregnant with Sawyer's baby? 



Kate is not pregnant with Sawyers baby because they have not done it yet. Need to have sex to have a baby.

Offline Desmond8MyPopRocks

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2006, 02:06:14 PM »
Interesting ideas. I am not so sure that Kate has a child, but I bet that Ben knew Kate was a fugitive. I am sure that Ethan found out a lot before the Marshall died. We didn't really see what he was doing before he took Claire. We also don't know if the Others can communicate with the outside world. If they can, they could have easily found out everything on these three. As far as we know, they drugged them and asked them questions before we see them on the Season 3 opener.

Tom used Kate as bait before and that was the only way they could make Sawyer and Jack behave. I am sure that Ben will use Kate to get to Sawyer. Sawyer isn't the selfish conman the pretends to be.  Sawyer won't break, but he can be controlled through Kate.

If Saiyd gets captured, it will be because they threaten Sun. Neither Jin nor Saiyd would let them harm Sun or the baby. You know they would love to get their hands on another pregnant woman... Is Kate pregnant with Sawyer's baby? 

bob:

I love ya darlin, but I have to disagree with you on a few levels here.  Yes, TheOthers can communicate with the outside world, otherwise they'd not have the info they do on our Losties.  Remember, Benry sent Goodwin and Eath both to their respective crash sites, not to get involved, but to gather info and bring back a list within 3 days;  and I do not believe it would've been easy to find out preliminary info on the three.  These three were taken for a reason--because they are leaders.  As I posted on a different thread, you snatch the leaders, break them and bring them to your way of thinking, there is no reason to bring the other Lostie sheep along for the ride--they'll come along willingly, to follow their "leaders."

I do, however, totally agree with you about Sawyer--Kate will be his breaking point.  She's already broken, and he sees that.  No, she's not pregnant with anyone's baby yet, my good buddy Juggie is right--you've got to do the deed first, although presenting Kate to Sawyer in the zoo is exactly as I said earlier--it's a way of presenting a mate to like animals who are in captivity. 

I think I said this in another thread, but it's Sayid they want--and if they don't, they should.  Think of the treasure trove there.  Carl's interest piqued and his demeanor changed when Sawyer mentioned the Iraqi torturer.  Go back and watch it again; there was a definite switch in how close Carl was paying attention to Sawyer once he mentioned Sayid.

Jin and Sun are the cards up in the air for now as far as I'm concerned.  Each is highly underestimated by TheOthers.

cheers doll
*Des8

Offline jugdish

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2006, 02:11:47 PM »
I know you guys have been waiting for this comment, so I will not disappoint.

You put Kate in a nice dress in a cage across from me and you will get some serious response from this boy. I would create a jail break like you have never seen. I think Saywer will do the same.

Offline Desmond8MyPopRocks

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2006, 02:21:16 PM »
I know you guys have been waiting for this comment, so I will not disappoint.

You put Kate in a nice dress in a cage across from me and you will get some serious response from this boy. I would create a jail break like you have never seen. I think Saywer will do the same.
Juggie:

LOLOLOLOL.  particularly if you thought she wasn't wearing panties under that dress.

Seriously though, wasn't it interesting that they put her in front of a mirror, for her what would've been the first time in over 2 months?  Benry completely demeaned her at "breakfast" too by telling her, "I put you in this dress so you'd feel like a lady, be able to eat your food with a fork, " etc... in other words she's not a lady in real life because she'd never have chosen that attire, etc.

One cannot be reconditioned unless they're first demeaned, stripped of everything familiar, broken down--only to be built up again in the image of their maker... only to have them love you for it later.  It's called the Stockholm Syndrome and this is classic reconditioning, what we saw on Weds night.

cheers--and chew your sandwich with your mouth closed, Juggie.
don't make me come over there and....

*Des8

Offline uofapiglet

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2006, 04:10:15 PM »
I know you guys have been waiting for this comment, so I will not disappoint.

You put Kate in a nice dress in a cage across from me and you will get some serious response from this boy. I would create a jail break like you have never seen. I think Saywer will do the same.

Jug, you naughty little boy... I bet you would... hahaha...

All this talk about Kate being a decoy sexpot is hilarious... It makes me wonder why they didn't try to kidnap her before, unless they are merely using her to get at Jack or Sawyer.

As for the pregnancy bit, I am just as confused as everyone else. We know that sooner or later the Sun/Jin/baby story will take full effect. But I'm also reminded of the episode wherein Kate admitted to Sun that she has taken a pregnancy test before... I'm not exactly sure where this ranks in importance among other lost mysteries so we'll just have to continue watching season 3.

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: The Psychological Skinner Box
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2006, 09:58:43 PM »
LMAO Juggy!!

I like the point that Bob brought up about them being questioned under sedation which would explain the band aid on their arms and it would also explain why Juliette knew so much about Jack.

Why do  you think they want them to mate though?  (Sawyer and Kate/Juliette-Jack)