Author Topic: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...  (Read 13596 times)

Offline PurpleLostPrincess

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Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« on: October 05, 2006, 07:07:03 PM »
Did anybody else notice that Tom said to Sawyer that it took two hours for 'the bears' to figure out getting the fish biscuit thingy?

I'd love to know if he meant polar bears or normal bears. Either way, they must have been quite clever to figure out that strange puzzle.

The cages really surprised me because there were tonnes of them (when Sawyer tried to run away, he was running along the back of them) but I couldn't really tell if they had been out of use for a long time or not. We only saw the one polar bear before - there must have been more at some point in the past?

Also, does anybody think Kate's cage was different from Sawyers?

Sorry - tonnes of questions. Apologies if they have already been covered but I didn't see any threads mentioning these things so I thought I'd put one together...

Offline sledgeweb

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2006, 07:15:36 PM »
We actually saw two polar bears. The one Sawyer kills, and the one that attacks Walt.

The orientation film talks about zoological research, and it appears the Hydra station is very similar to a zoo. Those cages behind Sawyer as he is running you mention look a lot like cages that monkeys or birds would be in. The cages Sawyer and Kate are in are obviously for large animals. In particular, the cage Sawyer was in was intended to promote behavioral cooperation (one bear had to press a lever while another bear pulled a different lever). Jack was in the same station, but in an area intended for aquatic research on species such as sharks and dolphins and sea horses.

Offline PurpleLostPrincess

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2006, 07:20:03 PM »
You're right Sledge - fanx I had forgotten about the other one.

In fact, it hadn't even crossed my mind that they would have more than one bear in the cage that Sawyer was in! That is even more interesting! I hope we get a better look at Kates cage next week - it will be interesting to see what other activities each cage promotes...

I noticed specifically the 'bed' that Jack was on had lots of holes that I would assume would be for water to drain away?

Offline Foxyschic

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2006, 07:20:51 PM »
Interesting, that Juliette said this used to be an experimental station.  But Tom had actually seen the bears complete the puzzle in two hours? Hmmm...interesting connection to are the others part of Dharma thread.

Offline kissinggabriela

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2006, 08:46:37 PM »
Dont Polar Bear cages usually have water sections included with them?  Could that mean there is some connection to the water section of the Hydra station?

For what it's worth, the polar bear's Latin name is Ursus maritimus, which means "sea bear" and shows up on the blast door...

Michelle13

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2006, 09:00:58 PM »
At the zoo here the polar bears have caves and such to hide out in but the main part of their area is a huge pool to play in...so I don't know that the bears would be kept in a small cage like this one then walked over to the water areas...but it's something to think on!  ;D

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2006, 09:12:06 PM »
Interesting, that Juliette said this used to be an experimental station.  But Tom had actually seen the bears complete the puzzle in two hours? Hmmm...interesting connection to are the others part of Dharma thread.
Hey that is an excellent point!! what gives with this weird time line?
unless Juliet was also part of the past that she was refering to.

Offline LostGirlDeb

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2006, 09:16:57 PM »
At the zoo here the polar bears have caves and such to hide out in but the main part of their area is a huge pool to play in...so I don't know that the bears would be kept in a small cage like this one then walked over to the water areas...but it's something to think on!  ;D

Hmmm That is true Chelle.. I just went to the zoo this summer too.
hmmm so maybe the cages were not for our polar bears or they were teaching the polar bears to be different in some way..I mean they are on a tropical Island so that is not the ideal habitat for a Polar bear to begin with.

I love Sawyer to death (he is my main man) but he did remind me of a curious monkey while he was trying to figure out the gizmo in the cage (cracked me up) :P

Michelle13

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2006, 09:35:02 PM »
Sawyer friggin cracked me UP!!!!!!!!!! when he won the prize ...the music playing and him orchestrating...LMAO Good times, good times.

Good point, polar bears on tropical island...watering hole in different area stuff...again, something to think on!  ;)

Offline Pandora

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2006, 02:26:15 AM »
Dont Polar Bear cages usually have water sections included with them?  Could that mean there is some connection to the water section of the Hydra station?

For what it's worth, the polar bear's Latin name is Ursus maritimus, which means "sea bear" and shows up on the blast door...

Yeah, polar bears spend a lot of time in the water in a natural environment... but then again, their natural environment wouldn't be a tropical island either, so I guess they won't be simulating any good humane enclosure for 'normal' polar bears... :) 

PLP, I was somewhat confused also by the whole cage scene, and why they should make it so complicated for the bears to get their food... as in, if they were being trained for something particular.  Also, on what exactly it was that threw Sawyer backwards... whether or not that was an electric shock, or what.

Offline demra

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2006, 03:01:24 AM »
diffinately looked like a shock to me a very large one at that

Offline sledgeweb

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2006, 03:06:47 AM »
Yeah, polar bears spend a lot of time in the water in a natural environment... but then again, their natural environment wouldn't be a tropical island either, so I guess they won't be simulating any good humane enclosure for 'normal' polar bears... :) 

PLP, I was somewhat confused also by the whole cage scene, and why they should make it so complicated for the bears to get their food... as in, if they were being trained for something particular.  Also, on what exactly it was that threw Sawyer backwards... whether or not that was an electric shock, or what.

Sawyer's cage was obviously set up to reward cooperative behavior in animals. Why this is being studied is an interesting question. I'm not sure how encouraging the bears to work together translates into furthering the Dharma Initiative...

Offline Desmond8MyPopRocks

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2006, 03:34:56 AM »
It's a classic Skinner Box and is common in studying animal behavior--particularly as it relates to reasoning abilities, ability to recognize  pictures rather than words (visual v. audial simuli.  It is nothing more than a testing facility--and perhaps was set up to test stimuli in an environment where electromagnetism is so prevalent a factor--something that couldn't be measured on the mainland.

This isn't Ozzie and Harriet's zoo, folks.

It also does not surprise me to stick humans into a Skinner Box situation, particularly since this was done with animals-rats-during the early 30s, and after 34, ultimately human Skinner Box tests were conducted by the Nazi Hitler regime during WW II.

Mark my words, the Stockholm Syndrome will come out of this for one of our Losties--history has a way of repeating itself and ultimately, according to human research conducted during the Third Reich's time, people are conditioned the same as animals, or can be, depending upon if you can break their free will, that being the key.  You break them to the point of hopelessness and renew a sense of "being" by instilling the values or thought processes of survival you want your subject to exhibit.

Animals have no way of discerning what "free will" is, but people do.  When this revelation was revealed during the early 40s, the experiment was furthered to include humans and the psychological experiments were directly related to how to alter human "free will."

The results later were disected, studied and used by some incredibly depraved people over time and hence used as "mind control" techniques for not only various militaries the world over (Pol Pot for one), but for every pretty bright fringe nutball who wanted to kidnap someone and turn them into a slave.  One of the most notorious cases was the "SLA Hearst" case in the 70s, but ultimately carried over into mainstream psycho society and would be used for years to come on various hostages or kidnap victims.  One of those most notorious cases was that of some freak in Red Bluff CA who kidnapped a very young woman in the 70s and used the same techniques on her, turning her into a human slave.  and she loved him because she knew nothing else.

It's an incredibly intricate process, but the fact that TheOthers seem to be headed down this path is--depraved, and it shows that they're not only highly intelligent, but they know their psychology, and are willing to use it to further whatever purpose it is they have to fulfill.

eeeeeeeek.
cheers
*Des8

Offline MaxsDad

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2006, 04:55:48 PM »
It's a classic Skinner Box and is common in studying animal behavior--particularly as it relates to reasoning abilities, ability to recognize  pictures rather than words (visual v. audial simuli.  It is nothing more than a testing facility--and perhaps was set up to test stimuli in an environment where electromagnetism is so prevalent a factor--something that couldn't be measured on the mainland.

This isn't Ozzie and Harriet's zoo, folks.

It also does not surprise me to stick humans into a Skinner Box situation, particularly since this was done with animals-rats-during the early 30s, and after 34, ultimately human Skinner Box tests were conducted by the Nazi Hitler regime during WW II.

Mark my words, the Stockholm Syndrome will come out of this for one of our Losties--history has a way of repeating itself and ultimately, according to human research conducted during the Third Reich's time, people are conditioned the same as animals, or can be, depending upon if you can break their free will, that being the key.  You break them to the point of hopelessness and renew a sense of "being" by instilling the values or thought processes of survival you want your subject to exhibit.

Animals have no way of discerning what "free will" is, but people do.  When this revelation was revealed during the early 40s, the experiment was furthered to include humans and the psychological experiments were directly related to how to alter human "free will."

The results later were disected, studied and used by some incredibly depraved people over time and hence used as "mind control" techniques for not only various militaries the world over (Pol Pot for one), but for every pretty bright fringe nutball who wanted to kidnap someone and turn them into a slave.  One of the most notorious cases was the "SLA Hearst" case in the 70s, but ultimately carried over into mainstream psycho society and would be used for years to come on various hostages or kidnap victims.  One of those most notorious cases was that of some freak in Red Bluff CA who kidnapped a very young woman in the 70s and used the same techniques on her, turning her into a human slave.  and she loved him because she knew nothing else.

It's an incredibly intricate process, but the fact that TheOthers seem to be headed down this path is--depraved, and it shows that they're not only highly intelligent, but they know their psychology, and are willing to use it to further whatever purpose it is they have to fulfill.

eeeeeeeek.
cheers
*Des8
:o that was good.....

Offline PurpleLostPrincess

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Re: Clever Bears (?) and their cages...
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2006, 05:35:52 PM »
Wow!! I really am impressed - I don't know what to say!!!!