Author Topic: Plane didn't crash?  (Read 5341 times)

Offline Jaique

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Plane didn't crash?
« on: May 31, 2006, 11:10:50 PM »
Has anyone else considered that the plane didn't crash, but was placed on the island.  Bear with me while I explain my thoughts:  We know that the Others are able to cause memories to be lost (no pun) Remember when Claire was kidnapped and had no memory of her time in the medical center?  Could the plane crash have been imagined by all the occupants, due to their being drugged?  There is some reason why these particular people are there; doesn't seem random.

The idea of so many people surviving a horrendous crash like that is just unbelievable to me, too sci-fi-ish.

Dharma seems to like to conduct psychological experiments:  what better than to monitor plane crash victims and their reactions?

ANother thought......Remember, Ana Lucia was with Doc. Sheppard in Sidney....she left, got on Oceanic 815.  On the same flight was Jack with Doc Sheppard's dead body!  Unless Ana Lucia waited a couple of weeks to leave Sidney after she and Doc decided to split, Jack would have been informed of his dad's death before it occurred!  This leads me to believe that Doc is one of the Others......the coffin was empty, remember?

Final thought:  it has always been said that the person who could figure out how to move MATTER as well as we have been able to move INFORMATION (telephone, fax, computer, etc.) ----that would be the most brilliant discovery in the history of the world.  We are not moving MATTER any quicker now than many years ago (trucks, planes, autos)....it seems the others are experimenting with that; e.g., Walt appearing to Shannon and Sayid; Jack's dad appearing to him.  Also possibly cloning experiments, and stem-cell research.  Locke's paralysis cure, Rose's cancer cure, Jin's infertility reversed.

Sorry for the lengthiness of this.  Somebody comment.  I'm probably real far out with this, but wanted to share.

Offline jugdish

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2006, 11:25:44 PM »
Nice post. I have thought a lot, and written, about the fact that so many survived is impossible. This can go along with the idea that if Desmond crashed the plane by accident then how are these people so connected to each other. I don't believe that they are there strictly by accident. They were also extremely off course when the plane crashed. Did desmond cause this to. The drugged idea has crossed my mind, I just can't commit to endorsing it fully yet. I also have thrown out the idea that Christian is involved with dharma and I still have my suspicion on that.

You also wrote...
ANother thought......Remember, Ana Lucia was with Doc. Sheppard in Sidney....she left, got on Oceanic 815.  On the same flight was Jack with Doc Sheppard's dead body!  Unless Ana Lucia waited a couple of weeks to leave Sidney after she and Doc decided to split, Jack would have been informed of his dad's death before it occurred!  This leads me to believe that Doc is one of the Others......the coffin was empty, remember?

I don't think this supports your theory. Christian could of died the day Anna left him. We do not have that time line yet. It does not have to be weeks, it could of been a matter of 5 days or so for Jack to get there and get his dad on the plane.

Offline WhatThe

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2006, 11:45:08 PM »
The problem with the drugged scenario is that Claire's memory loss wasn't caused by her being drugged. If you recall, the entire time she was drugged she was constantly remembering things that were happening...she even remembered that Charlie had been with her at the beginning. Once Alex helped her escape from the Others, she was still remembering things even though Alex had knocked her out with ether, because when Rousseau found her Claire had wanted to go back to the Others...she couldn't figure out why she woke up in the middle of nowhere. When she woke up the first thing she did was yell out for Ethan, which shows even after all the drugging and ether she still remembered everything that happened. When Claire heard the Others nearby out looking for her, she started yelling "I'm here!" and telling Rousseau that she had to give them her baby. She was remembering everything. Claire didn't lose her memory until Rousseau slammed the butt of her rifle into her head to shut her up and knock her out.

scrod

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2006, 01:20:09 AM »
The images ofthe plane breaking up and the tail section splashing down have been repeated so many times, far too many people experienced it to not be real.  Desmond's 'incident' correlates with a log file and the date of the plane crash.  It seems to me that a lot of things went wrong to put them there, not done on purpose. 

Personally, I do have some serious issues trying to figure out how Jack woke up over a hundred meters from the rest of the fuselage.  While we saw the splashdown of the tail, the actual 'landing' of the middle section was never shown.

They are all roughly connected in some weird ways, but who has not been overseas and run into someone from their neighborhood?  This is just on a grander fictionalized scale.

A quote from Herman Melville solidifies my thoughts:
"We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects."

Offline Jaique

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2006, 11:44:40 AM »
Thanks for all your responses.  My thinking about the plane crash being staged is based on my very limited knowledge of mass hallucination (or mass hypnosis--whatever); the crash that we viewers "see" is not as it happened, but as they thought that it happened.  Yes, lots of holes in this theory and I'm just trying to pick everything apart.  These people who 'crashed' were barely scratched.  Except for the guy with the shrapnel in his gut, were there any other significant injuries?  Think I remember a broken leg, and of course the guy being sucked in the jet engine.  It's just easier for me to believe this theory that to believe that this many folks survived that horrific crash!!
Thanks for reminding me about that Claire remembered her kidnapping.  As I remembered it, she was completely unaware until much later and then bits and pieces came back a little at a time. If the losties had been drugged as she was, they would have begun by now to have memories of being captured or whatever.
One of the best things about this show is THIS SITE!  And being able to discuss different opinions!


Offline HurleysGirl

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2006, 12:13:17 PM »
Also don't forget Rose's heart attack.  And we probably should look at the "numbers."  A typpical 777 can accomodate 368 to 386 passengers in a typical three-class configuration or 451 to 479 passengers in a typical two-class configuration. In an all-economy layout, the 777 can accommodate as many as 550 passengers.  However, I remember the Oceanic site showing three classes.  Also, Wilkipedia says that there were 361 seats.  So lets say ther plane was at 95% capacity or 343 people.  Add a flight crew of 11 (8 flight attendants, 3 in cockpit).  Total=354.  Approximately 72 survived the initial crash (including the pilot, marshall, and turbine guy) - so, less the three dead we have 69 alive.  Less than 20% crash survival rate.  There's the numbers, someone else will have to tell me if they're reasonable!  Oops, I forgot to figure in the dog.

Offline Jaique

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2006, 12:34:42 PM »
Thanks for the comment, Hurleysgirl.  Yes, Rose's heart had stopped and she was resuscitated.  Guess she couldn't fake that.  (unless it was drug-induced or she's an "other", but I am beginning to sound ridiculous even to myself)
I just keep coming back to the astronomical odds that ONE person would survive a crash like that.  Thus, there could not have been a real crash.  Just can't shake that outta my empty head......

Offline HurleysGirl

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2006, 01:13:41 PM »
I found this quote but I can't find the study it references:

According to an NTSB study of 568 crashes between 1983 and 2000, only five percent of passengers were killed; the remaining 95 percent escaped unharmed or without life-threatening injuries. In another study of more serious crashes, the odds were better than 50/50 that passengers got out alive.

So - any NTSB experts out there?

Offline cbw420

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2006, 01:33:56 PM »
i dont believe the plane didnt crash, thats crazy talk, i think that while the EM was building up (hatch clock running down) it started to pull the flight off course, secondly, having worked with planes in the military, they would definitely have survived, especially with them crashing near/in the water as they did

Offline Geronimo Jackson

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2006, 02:04:42 PM »
I beleive the plane crashed but then early on when walking in the jungle (where else) when looking for polarr bears Sayid says in response to someone's question"Impossible, us all surviving a plane crash like this is impossib;e" Not his actual quote, but the gist of what he was saying.
Okay we go back to season one pilot epsiode; Cindy who survives  but then mysteriously vanishes while in season two with the Tailies and our guys are clmbing up the roots of the tree- no screams-nothing  she is just gone- she gives Jack on the plane, two bottles of vodka,one is cloudy.he drinks that one.He says he was unconcious when the plane crashed. So he ended up in the forest, as asleep,possibly druged to be thrown from harms way by Cindy an Other?

Offline WhatThe

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2006, 02:34:58 PM »
I beleive the plane crashed but then early on when walking in the jungle (where else) when looking for polarr bears Sayid says in response to someone's question"Impossible, us all surviving a plane crash like this is impossib;e" Not his actual quote, but the gist of what he was saying.
Okay we go back to season one pilot epsiode; Cindy who survives  but then mysteriously vanishes while in season two with the Tailies and our guys are clmbing up the roots of the tree- no screams-nothing  she is just gone- she gives Jack on the plane, two bottles of vodka,one is cloudy.he drinks that one.He says he was unconcious when the plane crashed. So he ended up in the forest, as asleep,possibly druged to be thrown from harms way by Cindy an Other?

Yeah, but Kate says she remembers everything when talking to Jack about the plane crashing. In the flashbacks they show her completely alert while the tail end breaks off and flies away.

Offline Desmond8MyPopRocks

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2006, 05:15:41 AM »
I found this quote but I can't find the study it references:

According to an NTSB study of 568 crashes between 1983 and 2000, only five percent of passengers were killed; the remaining 95 percent escaped unharmed or without life-threatening injuries. In another study of more serious crashes, the odds were better than 50/50 that passengers got out alive.

So - any NTSB experts out there?

No, but remember when that plane crashed during an emergency landing and passengers IN DROVES were walking out of the corn fields, unharmed?  Plane crashes are freaky events and it really is shocking that so many people actually live through them, although very few every publicly discuss it.

A very good friend of mine who served as an NTSB investigator for airline crashes (including that nasty FL ValueJet crash where people who lived through the crash were killed and eaten by alligators in the swamp) said it's highly possible that THAT many people could've survived the crash on LOST.  It would not be unheard of.

Another factoid not known by the general public?  The words most often recorded by the black box by pilots just before crashing is:

You guessed it, "holy sh!t"  and then they crash.

cheers
*Des8

Offline Geronimo Jackson

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2006, 11:11:08 PM »
On the main page under summer Hiatus is an excellent mathmatical theroy on plane crashes.The plane did crash, some survviors the ones that were meant to survived. Prepsoterousyes,but this isa TV showwe have to suspend some disbelife.

Offline Desmond8MyPopRocks

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2006, 05:04:07 AM »
On the main page under summer Hiatus is an excellent mathmatical theroy on plane crashes.The plane did crash, some survviors the ones that were meant to survived. Prepsoterousyes,but this isa TV showwe have to suspend some disbelife.

Geronimo is such a doll:  this is far different than "I'm locking you out because I don't like your post here," much as Pandora's posts are.  While I realize we thankfully have moderators, one cannot help but wonder where the complex immediate drama comes in becuase the site is so all over the place, a user or member isn't allowed to post in 2 areas the same theory.  Most people are sporradic, and quite frankly, most are interested in the show, not your heavy-handed "this is where you can post and where you can't" net-religion. Why do you care?   Do you really think regular posters are so dumb they can't figure out what might be a great "food for thought" post?  If I had 2,000 hits a day reading posts and approx 15 people posting a day, what good does it do to be nasty about members' posts?  Particularly if you consider over 20M people watch the show.

Life's too short to be cranky!  Just enjoy yourself!  Nobody signed up for nonsense, we all signed up, including you, to enjoy our discussion about the show!  Let's keep it that way!

cheers
*Des8


Offline demra

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Re: Plane didn't crash?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2006, 01:27:32 AM »
On the main page under summer Hiatus is an excellent mathmatical theroy on plane crashes.The plane did crash, some survviors the ones that were meant to survived. Prepsoterousyes,but this isa TV showwe have to suspend some disbelife.

Geronimo is such a doll:  this is far different than "I'm locking you out because I don't like your post here," much as Pandora's posts are.  While I realize we thankfully have moderators, one cannot help but wonder where the complex immediate drama comes in becuase the site is so all over the place, a user or member isn't allowed to post in 2 areas the same theory.  Most people are sporradic, and quite frankly, most are interested in the show, not your heavy-handed "this is where you can post and where you can't" net-religion. Why do you care?   Do you really think regular posters are so dumb they can't figure out what might be a great "food for thought" post?  If I had 2,000 hits a day reading posts and approx 15 people posting a day, what good does it do to be nasty about members' posts?  Particularly if you consider over 20M people watch the show.

Life's too short to be cranky!  Just enjoy yourself!  Nobody signed up for nonsense, we all signed up, including you, to enjoy our discussion about the show!  Let's keep it that way!

cheers
*Des8



I actually think the mods do a very good job sifting thru the posts and trying to get them moved or merged into areas that they are more suited to be in and that they do a very good job in informing the members  of why they have taken action or in some `cases not taking any action

I have never had any of them be in any way heavy handed or rude while doing there jobs