Author Topic: Life after Death  (Read 1011 times)

Offline nomteticus

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Life after Death
« on: May 26, 2010, 09:30:09 PM »
I just saw the finale. I have a few things that are not clear to me, maybe we can all create a reality that makes sense (just like our losties tried to do with the ALT world).

So LOST, while being a pluri-mythological creation (just watch all the symbols on the church window), has this one axiom: There is Life after Death, and it has at least two levels - purgatory and enlightment.

All characters experience some sort of consciousness after death. We all knew that because Miles could apparently "hear the dead" and Hurley (and even Ben or MIB) could speak to them. This consciousness expresses itself differently. We know of at least two ways:

I Whispers - people who died on the island, did bad things and didn't leave anyone caring for them turn into whispers, and their punishment is to (eternally?) guide the living who are on the island.

II ALT Worlds - if a larger number of people share the same period as a reference point to the peak of their lives, by meaning a lot to eachother they can create their own purgatory/fake-paradise where their dreams can come true (find their loved ones, be successful/lucky in life, have the child they never had, etc.). Apparently it doesn't matter as much if you were good or bad, as long as you struggle for redemption (see Ben)

The world we see after the "LAX" episode is one of the millions of Alt Worlds collectively created. In these worlds, although emulating "the golden period" , time doesn't really run in a linear fashion. These worlds contain different types of people:

A. The people who created the world(s):
1) people ready to move on to the next level: all the people at the Church
2) people NOT ready to move on to the next level who know where they are: Ben, Miss Hawking, Daniel (partially), Rose/Bernard(?)
3) people who haven't yet figured out the nature of the world they live in: Charlotte, Ana Lucia, Miles, Dr. Chang, Alex, Rousseau

B. Fake people - now these are people who populate the ALT-worlds without their soul actually being inside them. They are made up by the people at point (A) to maintain a world consistency. They include:
1) random people you see on the street or the people required to run things to maintain the illusion of a real world (doctors, lawyers, engineers, workers, etc.)
2) people who the losties knew but aren't themselves part of this Alt World, they are maybe part of a different Alt World but also appear in this world as triggers for the (A) people: Minkowski, Rose/Bernard(?), Helen, Locke's dad(?), Hurley's mom, Keamy (it doesn't make sense for Keamy to be killed unless he doesn't really exist in this purgatory and he is just used as a device to get Sayid, Sun and Jin on the path to enlightment). They are like NPC's (Non playing characters) in a computer game, helping the actual characters to move on.

This theory would explain why some people get enlightened (as in "find their constant") and some do not (the B people who are really just triggers) and also some would still choose to stay even though they are enlightened. Ben for example couldn't leave because he still had to enlighten Alex and Rousseau that they are really dead (mostly because of him). It was his duty and he sticked to it. Daniel didn't leave because he wasn't fully enlightened and because he still needed to patch things up with Charlotte and his parents before moving on.

Richard, Jacob and MIB are not in the ALT because they are in different ALT's. Richard is probably with his wife somewhere in Tenerife, MIB is probably with his real mother and Jacob probably with the crazy mother (speculation of course).

The people who the Losties know prior to LAX are not their constants and cannot enlighten one another. So Juliet isn't Jack's constant, Miles isn't Sawyer's, etc.

So when the Church people leave, this made-up world still exists, up until the people I described at A2 and A3 also move on. This would also explain why some people can die (Omar, Keamy) and never be enlightened (they don't really exist here).

If this is correct, there are still some questions:

1) Are Rose and Bernard A2's or B2's? I mean they seem enlightened (Rose helps John, Bernard helps Jack) but they don't move on, so either they have unresolved business (unlikely), or they are not really in that world (since they spent most of their time on the island and with each other, they probably have a different Alt-World that only the two of them created).

2) Why would Juliet dream up a world where she has a son with Jack if she really loves Sawyer? Now we may answer this question thinking that David is more Jack's creation than Juliet's. If the Alt world actually begins in 2004, Jack and Juliet are already divorced, so there is no actual romance involved.

3) Is Nadia actually a Non-Playing-Character (B2) ? Because I would not imagine Sayid wouldn't go enlighten her after being enlightened by Shannon, unless she is just a part of the setting and her soul is not really in the AltWorld. But where would her soul be? She wasn't on the island, so she is not part of the collective creation, but wouldn't she be in a world with Sayid, since he seems to be the only person she ever cared about? So where exactly is Nadia's soul?

4) Penny is part of the Church team even though she is only connected through Desmond. Why is she the exception? Sayid didn't get Nadia and Locke didn't get Helen because they weren't real. But why is Penny real and those others are not?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 09:54:53 PM by nomteticus »

Offline lostlady

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Re: Life after Death
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2010, 10:05:20 PM »
Rose and Bernard were in the church

Offline lostandfree

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Re: Life after Death
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2010, 12:59:56 PM »


1.  Rose and Bernard were in the church with everyone else.

2. This one is actually a good question.  I do think David was completely Jack's creation.  I would believe that Juliet was not really there or something like a Desmond/Penny scenario, except for the fact that Juliet was enlightened with Sawyer, so I really have no idea.

3. Nadia I think is a non playing character.  She didn't really exist in that world so she could not be enlightened and Sayid probably realized this.  I think he is with Shannon and not Nadia because Shannon was with him on the island which was the most important and life altering time in is life.  He may have loved Nadia but she was not a part of the life altering time.  As to where her soul is, I don't know.

4. Perhaps the island time was Penny's life altering time for herself.  She spent years looking for Desmond, found him on this island, as a result married Desmond, had a child, spent years hiding from her father.  She didn't spend time ON the island, but the island itself was the cause of a lot of big events in her life, which became the most important time in her life.  Also these people intertwined with Desmond has a lot to do with all that so she is there with them all because they are all connected through the island.  Nadia and Helen are not there because the island had no role in their lives whatsoever.


Offline conway

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Re: Life after Death
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2010, 05:16:12 PM »
Let us not forget that Penny has significant interections with the oceanic 6
when she saved them after the heocopter crashed.