Author Topic: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)  (Read 8983 times)

Offline Hurley rocks dudes

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last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« on: May 26, 2010, 03:35:55 AM »
things i am sick of:

1. people posting threads with millions of questions they still had after the finale- i agree that there are about 2 or 3 legitimate questions that could be asked, but when paired together with questions about small things and things that were left up to us to use are brains about... it just makes us the viewers look stupid. I understand that many people have questions and want EVERYTHING that ever happened in all of LOST to be explained, but guess what??? sorry, but its impossible. I side with the writers and what they did to finish the story. i liked what they did and i'm not going to pick apart the finale because micheal wasn't included in the freaking church...

2. people saying they died in the plane crash... this one is indefensible- the writers laid it out nice and freaking clear for us in christian's explanation to Jack. everything that happened on the island happened (what happened, happened.) the "sideways" "purgatory" "alternate" thing happened in no time period because it was OUTSIDE of time. this was also explained by christian. after they all died, they went there to remember and have one last time together before moving on to... wherever. once again, i don't think its worth it to nitpick who was in the church, why ben didn't go in, what about david blah blah blah ultimately you are ruining the ending for yourself. david wasn't real, nobody in that place was even real- it was all made up in their "place" (NOT purgatory)

3. PURGATORY- what that place was not!- is some beliefs, purgatory is where you go to pay off your sins/debts. that is in no way where the characters were at. as i said before, and as christian explained, they were there to remember together. i've heard sooooo many people complain, "the writers said they weren't in purgatory!! THEY LIED TO US!!!" first, they said the island wasn't purgatory, and second... it wasn't.

4. i for one loved the finale. i really enjoyed the way they brought a series that was so near and dear to our hearts to an amazing end. i will miss it. i was especially happy how they paid homage to many great moments in the first season with jack and locke peering down the hole. i'm not one to cry during anything, so when i say i felt chills and got a little choked up at the end, you'll know how great it was. for anyone who was dissapointed, i'm sorry. you and i and all of us here have enjoyed this show for many years, so why be mad at it? at least you had all the good times- like the characters, try to remember all those moments.

anyway, i think this will be my last post here.. of course i may be wrong, but we'll see. i've just been frustrated at all the negativeness in this forum about the finale, i literally can't read anymore bad reviews by angry fans. i'll definitely check up to see the recaps, i love those :) and maybe i'll check in every once in a while... thanks sledge for all your hard work, and thanks to all the mods and admins and others who have kept this forum going all these years... you guys are all a great bunch of people!!!!

-with much LOST love
hurley rocks dudes-- also known as Jason :D

Offline sadavidas

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2010, 05:01:38 AM »
I agree with some of the things you said, but not completely...

don't think its worth it to nitpick who was in the church, why ben didn't go in, what about david blah blah blah ultimately you are ruining the ending for yourself. david wasn't real, nobody in that place was even real- it was all made up in their "place"

As far as who was and who was not in the church - not a big deal to me.  This one deals with the reality of things (i.e. real life, not the show).  If I were to nitpick this, I would say, why wasn't Eko there?  His time on the island was probably one of the most important times of his life as far as redemption and the theme of the show is concerned but any fan knows he decided to leave to show despite being a character they planned on having a large role.  I'm fine with that, it's something the writer's have no control over.

As far as Ben and David, that's not "blah blah blah" to me.  In the end, whether we liked it or not, the writers decided to make the show more about the characters than the mystery.  Critical thinking and knowledge of the show present several theories to these and they deserve to be discussed because it really pertains to the characters and the direction the writers decided to go.

Ben is redeemed in the end, perhaps he's just there to wish a fond farewell to the collective body of people that were responsible for his transformation.  Or who knows, maybe he didn't go in because he is still alive and he is existing in both the sideways world and the real one similar to Desmond and he is the new number one; he just wanted to see everyone off.  All in all, it does not matter why he didn't go in, but it's worth discussing because the whole ATL is a reflection of who the characters were and how they perceived themselves.

As far as David, that is a HUGE part of Jack's story even though he "isn't real".  Once again, it is part of the characters.  David is a manifestation of Jack, and Juliet too. It's worth discussing.  Some people will be confused by him but that's why we discuss it.

i agree that there are about 2 or 3 legitimate questions that could be asked, but when paired together with questions about small things and things that were left up to us to use are brains about... it just makes us the viewers look stupid. I understand that many people have questions and want EVERYTHING that ever happened in all of LOST to be explained, but guess what??? sorry, but its impossible.

I don't think anyone expected every loose thread to be addressed, but they left ALOT unanswered.  Now, in the defense of the writers, alot of this can be filled in by thinking about it.  However, other things can not. 

Ultimately, it is unfair to the audience to pull them in with mysteries and unanswered questions, act like you are bringing everything together and then decide 75% of the way through the story to change the presentation of things and stop answering these questions.  Think back to early Lost, how did they reel us in?  It was through polar bears, mysterious hatches and numbers, the Others, etc... 

Those specific examples were answered, but those are the types of things that created the huge fandom they had.  The mysteries were responsible for all the forums, blogs and discussions and were what ultimately made us originally love the show.  We fell in love with the characters too, but the linear story line of Lost and the mysteries that kept us watching were what separated this show from all the others.  And in then end, for them just make the final season about the characters while not giving us answers to the unanswered mysteries that arose in the storyline from the very beginning makes me a little mad.  Don't get me wrong, I loved the characters, but I feel cheated.  I'm okay with how it ended, just not how they filled in the gaps these last two seasons.

2. people saying they died in the plane crash... this one is indefensible- the writers laid it out nice and freaking clear for us in christian's explanation to Jack.

Once again, I agree and disagree.  Yeah, anyone who heard the minute of dialogue between Jack and his father should have realized what happened on the island was real.  However, that whole conversation was very unLost like and anti-climatic.  Are they really going to give us the answer for the whole mysterious flash-sideways after leading us to believe it was something else in one straight forward 30 second conversation?  Looking back now I see there were numerous clues to this, but really?  Really?  Name one other big surprise or mystery that was answered or dispelled in Lost that was resolved in such an anti-climatic way?  The reason so many people are confused about it is the way the writers presented it.

Anyways, that's my rant. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate the finale like a lot of people, but I did not love it either.  It is more of Season 6 as a whole just frustrating me.  For example. the Others at the temple.

Who cares about them?  I sure did not care about characters introduced this late into the series that had no real character development themselves or really exist to further the plot that much.  What plot development that was accomplished during the episodes centered around the temple could have been done in many different ways without wasting so much of our much-awaited last season. 

I don't care about the kung-fu man with a baseball that really does speak english, I want answers.

Offline jinfan

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2010, 08:17:28 AM »
things i am sick of:

1. people posting threads with millions of questions they still had after the finale- i agree that there are about 2 or 3 legitimate questions that could be asked, but when paired together with questions about small things and things that were left up to us to use are brains about... it just makes us the viewers look stupid. I understand that many people have questions and want EVERYTHING that ever happened in all of LOST to be explained, but guess what??? sorry, but its impossible. I side with the writers and what they did to finish the story. i liked what they did and i'm not going to pick apart the finale because micheal wasn't included in the freaking church...

2. people saying they died in the plane crash... this one is indefensible- the writers laid it out nice and freaking clear for us in christian's explanation to Jack. everything that happened on the island happened (what happened, happened.) the "sideways" "purgatory" "alternate" thing happened in no time period because it was OUTSIDE of time. this was also explained by christian. after they all died, they went there to remember and have one last time together before moving on to... wherever. once again, i don't think its worth it to nitpick who was in the church, why ben didn't go in, what about david blah blah blah ultimately you are ruining the ending for yourself. david wasn't real, nobody in that place was even real- it was all made up in their "place" (NOT purgatory)

3. PURGATORY- what that place was not!- is some beliefs, purgatory is where you go to pay off your sins/debts. that is in no way where the characters were at. as i said before, and as christian explained, they were there to remember together. i've heard sooooo many people complain, "the writers said they weren't in purgatory!! THEY LIED TO US!!!" first, they said the island wasn't purgatory, and second... it wasn't.

4. i for one loved the finale. i really enjoyed the way they brought a series that was so near and dear to our hearts to an amazing end. i will miss it. i was especially happy how they paid homage to many great moments in the first season with jack and locke peering down the hole. i'm not one to cry during anything, so when i say i felt chills and got a little choked up at the end, you'll know how great it was. for anyone who was dissapointed, i'm sorry. you and i and all of us here have enjoyed this show for many years, so why be mad at it? at least you had all the good times- like the characters, try to remember all those moments.

anyway, i think this will be my last post here.. of course i may be wrong, but we'll see. i've just been frustrated at all the negativeness in this forum about the finale, i literally can't read anymore bad reviews by angry fans. i'll definitely check up to see the recaps, i love those :) and maybe i'll check in every once in a while... thanks sledge for all your hard work, and thanks to all the mods and admins and others who have kept this forum going all these years... you guys are all a great bunch of people!!!!

-with much LOST love
hurley rocks dudes-- also known as Jason :D


I agree with you HRD,and would like to add how much I liked Hurley ending up with Jacobs job. That and Ben waiting outside on the bench were some of my favorite parts of the ending.

Offline conway

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2010, 09:08:36 AM »
I must admit that initially I loved the first 80% of the finale and somewhat disappointed in the alt world ending from the concert with all those imaginary (?)people. on.  Well, who could not love Sawyer and Juliet's reunion.  I admit I did miss the nuances of Christian's speech and thought that the plane never crashed and was upset with baby AAron since in the real world he was  3  or 4.
After reading very thoughtful , insightful posts I now  appreciate it.  I rewatched the episode yesterday and really loved it the second time through.  The acting was great, visually beautiful,music wonderful , lots of dramatic moments, romantic moments and a nice  tie in to all of our favorite characters.
So thank you clever posters for my new appreciation of the finale.  Thanks for 6 years of intellegent and (mostly) respectful discourse.  I am sad it is over.

Offline lostlady

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2010, 09:15:16 AM »
I agree to fully appreciate what happened on the finale you need to see it twice. I missed a lot the first time around. I totally didn't realize until the scene was almost over that when Locke was speaking to Ben that it was the first time they had really seen each other since Ben killed him!

Offline CastawayCayley

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2010, 11:34:53 AM »
anyway, i think this will be my last post here.. of course i may be wrong, but we'll see. i've just been frustrated at all the negativeness in this forum about the finale, i literally can't read anymore bad reviews by angry fans. i'll definitely check up to see the recaps, i love those :) and maybe i'll check in every once in a while... thanks sledge for all your hard work, and thanks to all the mods and admins and others who have kept this forum going all these years... you guys are all a great bunch of people!!!!

-with much LOST love
hurley rocks dudes-- also known as Jason :D

First off thank you! ( for anyone who doesn't know I write those and as soon as my brain gets unmelted by the finale I will have new ones up!)

But I did want to make one point. This forum is exactly designed to hash out what we ALL thought of the finale. It's not "Sledgeweb's Lost... Stuff for people who liked the finale ONLY" so I don't think it's fair for anyone to say (and I'm not singling you out, Jason, because a lot of people are saying it) like it or get out. It's almost as if people are taking others opinions too personally.

Person A: I loved it.
Person B: I hated it.
Persons A & B: OMG, what is wrong with you??

Can't we all just get along?*




(oh, yes I did!)  ;)

Offline MachThree

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2010, 12:14:08 PM »
As far as David, that is a HUGE part of Jack's story even though he "isn't real".  Once again, it is part of the characters.  David is a manifestation of Jack, and Juliet too. It's worth discussing.  Some people will be confused by him but that's why we discuss it.

I think somehow Locke "dispelled" David when he told Jack he had no son.  I want to go back and watch again to check for this, but I'm pretty sure David was not seen again after Locke said that.  Claire was busy giving birth to Aaron, Juliet had her epiphany with Sawyer, and Kate managed to spark enough of Jack's memory that he seemed to forget all about David and drove off with her.  In other words, if David was still there, he was abandoned at the concert and no one drove him home :) 
Ultimately, it is unfair to the audience to pull them in with mysteries and unanswered questions, act like you are bringing everything together and then decide 75% of the way through the story to change the presentation of things and stop answering these questions.  Think back to early Lost, how did they reel us in?  It was through polar bears, mysterious hatches and numbers, the Others, etc... 

Agree with the above completely.  I liked what they ended up doing, but it was also unfair.  The mysteries were not just there in passing, they were presented as being important, and they basically bailed out on them.  Sort of sucks.

Those specific examples were answered, but those are the types of things that created the huge fandom they had.  The mysteries were responsible for all the forums, blogs and discussions and were what ultimately made us originally love the show.  We fell in love with the characters too, but the linear story line of Lost and the mysteries that kept us watching were what separated this show from all the others.  And in then end, for them just make the final season about the characters while not giving us answers to the unanswered mysteries that arose in the storyline from the very beginning makes me a little mad.  Don't get me wrong, I loved the characters, but I feel cheated.  I'm okay with how it ended, just not how they filled in the gaps these last two seasons.

Absolutely.  Although i suppose some romantics were compelled to discuss who Kate would end up with etc., it wasn't the characters that drove interest in this show.  In the early days, no one was going online to discuss if Jack would resolve his daddy issues, or anything of the sort.

Once again, I agree and disagree.  Yeah, anyone who heard the minute of dialogue between Jack and his father should have realized what happened on the island was real. 

Exactly.  to me, that's all there is to it, so when you say below:

However, that whole conversation was very unLost like and anti-climatic.  Are they really going to give us the answer for the whole mysterious flash-sideways after leading us to believe it was something else in one straight forward 30 second conversation?  Looking back now I see there were numerous clues to this, but really?  Really? 

I didn't find it to be un-Lost-Like or anti-climactic at all.  In fact, I think it was very consistent in tone to some of "Christian"'s other appearances (to Locke in the Cabin with Claire, or to Locke when he turned the wheel).  But more to the point, even if you find it to be un-Lost-like, why is that an excuse for disregarding it?  This dialogue clearly spelled out what was going on re: "purgatory" etc. but people act as if it was never said or act as if he said something different.  The island was not purgatory, period.

Name one other big surprise or mystery that was answered or dispelled in Lost that was resolved in such an anti-climatic way?  The reason so many people are confused about it is the way the writers presented it.

For starters, the whispers were resolved much more anti-climatically way, IMHO.  I don't understand why people are confused by the way it was presented.  I don't see how it could possibly be made any clearer.  I mean, Jack basically asked Christian "What's going on" and Christian responded "This, this, and this is what's going on".  How much clearer could it be?

Anyways, that's my rant. Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate the finale like a lot of people, but I did not love it either.  It is more of Season 6 as a whole just frustrating me.  For example. the Others at the temple.  Who cares about them?  I sure did not care about characters introduced this late into the series that had no real character development themselves or really exist to further the plot that much.  What plot development that was accomplished during the episodes centered around the temple could have been done in many different ways without wasting so much of our much-awaited last season. 


Agree about the Others and the Temple, that was somewhat lame the way they (didn't) resolve it

Offline cookieshoes

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2010, 01:33:05 PM »
i literally can't read anymore bad reviews by angry fans.

Then don't read them. Your happiness with the finale is no better/worse than those of us who thought it had some annoying problems.

I think the finale (and Season 6) was far from perfect. If you think it was perfect, power to you.
Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy the hell out of it, or that I don't like the show anymore.

But what gets me is the sudden shift in character of so many of the people who spent the last 6 years enjoying the show like I did. Yet now so many of them are throwing tantrums because we're still discussing a show that only just happened four days ago. This show was ALL ABOUT analyzing every last detail of every scene. This site, and many others like it, wouldn't have existed if the show didn't encourage discussion and digging deeper.  So, for anyone to now try and say "That's it, the show's over, stop analyzing!", and accusing people of being angry because they didn't get the same experience out of the finale as you did, is about as antithetical to the spirit of Lost as you can get. 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 01:35:07 PM by cookieshoes »

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2010, 01:44:15 PM »
Analyzing is one thing. Repeatedly banging your head against the wall about things that A: Didn't matter to the story, or B: Have already be answered, maybe not as concrete as you like, is another.

Offline cookieshoes

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2010, 02:55:07 PM »
Analyzing is one thing. Repeatedly banging your head against the wall about things that A: Didn't matter to the story, or B: Have already be answered, maybe not as concrete as you like, is another.

See, more of the same.

Just because you've decided to write up countless answers that you've made up for yourself, and are fine with them, doesn't mean anything. That's fan-fiction.

Because, no, we didn't need a 3 hour episode on the Egyptians. As I've read elsewhere, we didn't need a scene showing them reading over blueprints for the statue, or actually carving in all of the writing on the temple walls.  But funny that they did all of that extensive pushing of hieroglyphics, buildings, statues, symbolism, names, characters for six years.  And they gave us not one single scene giving any background on any of the egyptians elements of the show. But, thankfully they gave us Paulo and Nikki, right?  THAT part of the story just had to be told, apparently.

Because it is that very perception that certain things "didn't matter to the story", that is the problem.  Because with that kind of logic, where exactly does the pecking-order end? Why have a show at all?  Why not just start with the crash and cut right to the part where Jack dies protecting the island and watches his friends fly away?

You know what else didn't really matter to the story in the end?  For starters....Walt, Michael, Eko, Libby in the asylum, Paulo and Nikki, the whispers, Eloise, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, Dr Chang, Dharma, the NUMBERS.  While we're at it, why did the writers bother introducing Jacob and MiB's fake mom at all then?  That was history that the writers could've played numerous ways, and ignored just as they did the Egyptians. They didn't even introduce the idea that Jacob and the MiB even had a mother until what....3 episodes before the finale?  Did we really need to see Jacob and the MiB play out that miserable episode, with the hack explanation of the donkey wheel, or the cave of light and the smoke monster shooting out?  Watch it again. We didn't, did we?  It didn't really matter to the story in the end.  In fact, we probably would've all been better off if they had kept ignoring it and only brought in the cave of light at the very end of the finale, with Desmond and Jack going into it.  At least we would've been spared by only having to see that terrible cgi job only once.

It's all perspective. It's just that some of you are more inclined to pretend like you actualy know more than those of us who were watching the show with you.

Offline lostlady

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2010, 03:04:54 PM »

It's all perspective. It's just that some of you are more inclined to pretend like you actualy know more than those of us who were watching the show with you.


What we are trying to do here is share thoughts with others so we can make sense of what Lost was about. There is no more Lost- so any unanswered questions you may have can be theorized and discussed on here so you can take an answer away with you. I don't think anyone here says they know more than anyone else--they are just theorizing. If you don't agree with their theory feel free to offer your own. At this point there is nothing else we can do. We know there were unanswered questions and here is a great place to hash out what the answers might be. Any answers at this point will be fan generated because Lost is over so no use complaining about the lack of answers. Having so many unanswered questions is not what many people want but it is the way it is.

Offline cookieshoes

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2010, 03:11:27 PM »
Uh....is there an echo in here? That's the very point I was making.

I think the irony is that the real frustrated types around here are those who keep posting about how much it bothers them that some of us just "won't accept" that the answers in the finale were perfect, and that we should stop banging our heads....just as those people start giving us all of their "perfect" theorys.





« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 03:17:04 PM by cookieshoes »

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2010, 11:33:12 AM »
Analyzing is one thing. Repeatedly banging your head against the wall about things that A: Didn't matter to the story, or B: Have already be answered, maybe not as concrete as you like, is another.

See, more of the same.

Just because you've decided to write up countless answers that you've made up for yourself, and are fine with them, doesn't mean anything. That's fan-fiction.

Because, no, we didn't need a 3 hour episode on the Egyptians. As I've read elsewhere, we didn't need a scene showing them reading over blueprints for the statue, or actually carving in all of the writing on the temple walls.  But funny that they did all of that extensive pushing of hieroglyphics, buildings, statues, symbolism, names, characters for six years.  And they gave us not one single scene giving any background on any of the egyptians elements of the show. But, thankfully they gave us Paulo and Nikki, right?  THAT part of the story just had to be told, apparently.

Because it is that very perception that certain things "didn't matter to the story", that is the problem.  Because with that kind of logic, where exactly does the pecking-order end? Why have a show at all?  Why not just start with the crash and cut right to the part where Jack dies protecting the island and watches his friends fly away?

You know what else didn't really matter to the story in the end?  For starters....Walt, Michael, Eko, Libby in the asylum, Paulo and Nikki, the whispers, Eloise, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, Dr Chang, Dharma, the NUMBERS.  While we're at it, why did the writers bother introducing Jacob and MiB's fake mom at all then?  That was history that the writers could've played numerous ways, and ignored just as they did the Egyptians. They didn't even introduce the idea that Jacob and the MiB even had a mother until what....3 episodes before the finale?  Did we really need to see Jacob and the MiB play out that miserable episode, with the hack explanation of the donkey wheel, or the cave of light and the smoke monster shooting out?  Watch it again. We didn't, did we?  It didn't really matter to the story in the end.  In fact, we probably would've all been better off if they had kept ignoring it and only brought in the cave of light at the very end of the finale, with Desmond and Jack going into it.  At least we would've been spared by only having to see that terrible cgi job only once.

It's all perspective. It's just that some of you are more inclined to pretend like you actualy know more than those of us who were watching the show with you.


Sorry to say it bud, but it appears we DO know more than you. You want a scene of backstory on the Egyptians? Where would you have put it without devoting a whole Ep to it? It doesn't fit with our story.

"Walt, Michael, Eko, Libby in the asylum, Paulo and Nikki, the whispers, Eloise, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, Dr Chang, Dharma, the NUMBERS." Aside from Paulo and Nikki, (Which is the episode referred to as why they gave themselves an end date and 16 episode seasons) The fact that you dont understand why this stuff either became less important over time, (Walt +Eko) or was important makes me doubt we were watching the same show. You thought Michael was unimportant? Hardly. He was a person that acted in his own self interests, and was therefore damned to be stuck on the island  until he could redeem himself. Libby in the asylum is a tiny detail of the story which would have been told had she not gotten clipped for a DUI. The whispers were explained directly and everyone hated it. Eloise used to be an Other and killed her own son. After leaving the island she assisted people wanting to get back. In the ALT she gained realization soon after her entrance into it, and did not want to move on so she could have a life with her son she squandered.  Daniel (Tried) helping all of us understand some of the physics behind the timetravel of the show. Ultra important. Charlotte was Daniel's love interest. That's seemingly what Lost was all about. Miles Had great purpose, with his father issues AND his power to hear the thoughts of the dead. Dr. Chang was Miles' father needed for the Father issues that were an underlying theme to the show. Dharma showed the lengths Jacob would allow people to go to before he could no longer allow their presence on the island. Also Dharma were the ones who made possible the conditions giving Desmond his gift. Without the Losties time traveling to them, that all never would have happened. As for the numbers, I can understand why some people are upset with the way they handled them. As a writer I can see the probability that they knew what the numbers would be used for, but could not tell us enough about the circumstances for us to understand the importance of them. So they conveyed the dire importance of them and then left us to take them where we did.  Some people can't get that and that's fine. I don't hold a grudge on that.

So there you go. These are not Theories. These are facts about the same show you watched. If you have problems with it that's fine, but don't start numerating lists like that which are so obviously forced you really only have one valid gripe in there.


Offline cookieshoes

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2010, 01:02:15 PM »
Sorry to say it bud, but it appears we DO know more than you. You want a scene of backstory on the Egyptians? Where would you have put it without devoting a whole Ep to it? It doesn't fit with our story.

"Walt, Michael, Eko, Libby in the asylum, Paulo and Nikki, the whispers, Eloise, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, Dr Chang, Dharma, the NUMBERS." Aside from Paulo and Nikki, (Which is the episode referred to as why they gave themselves an end date and 16 episode seasons) The fact that you dont understand why this stuff either became less important over time, (Walt +Eko) or was important makes me doubt we were watching the same show. You thought Michael was unimportant? Hardly. He was a person that acted in his own self interests, and was therefore damned to be stuck on the island  until he could redeem himself. Libby in the asylum is a tiny detail of the story which would have been told had she not gotten clipped for a DUI. The whispers were explained directly and everyone hated it. Eloise used to be an Other and killed her own son. After leaving the island she assisted people wanting to get back. In the ALT she gained realization soon after her entrance into it, and did not want to move on so she could have a life with her son she squandered.  Daniel (Tried) helping all of us understand some of the physics behind the timetravel of the show. Ultra important. Charlotte was Daniel's love interest. That's seemingly what Lost was all about. Miles Had great purpose, with his father issues AND his power to hear the thoughts of the dead. Dr. Chang was Miles' father needed for the Father issues that were an underlying theme to the show. Dharma showed the lengths Jacob would allow people to go to before he could no longer allow their presence on the island. Also Dharma were the ones who made possible the conditions giving Desmond his gift. Without the Losties time traveling to them, that all never would have happened. As for the numbers, I can understand why some people are upset with the way they handled them. As a writer I can see the probability that they knew what the numbers would be used for, but could not tell us enough about the circumstances for us to understand the importance of them. So they conveyed the dire importance of them and then left us to take them where we did.  Some people can't get that and that's fine. I don't hold a grudge on that.

So there you go. These are not Theories. These are facts about the same show you watched. If you have problems with it that's fine, but don't start numerating lists like that which are so obviously forced you really only have one valid gripe in there.



Again, more of the same.  ;D

Don't get upset, dude. It's not my fault that all you've got are your own interpretations, and that you want them so badly to be "the truth". It's a tv show, not a competition.  Besides, 99% of your theories are the common knowledge in the show that was brought up here and elsewhere, so it's bizarre that you claim some kind of ownership of them. The only "forcing" here is when people write that their theory/opinion is better than someone else's. 

You confuse the concept of people discussing the errors in the show with some notion of people "not getting it" or not really having been fans of the show.  What's worse is that you continue to the point that apparently no one "got it" as good as you did.  I got the show just fine. It didn't keep to it's own standard of storytelling and style with the way they handled Seasons 5/6 and the finale.

Again, the show wasn't obligated to answer every single moment, or spend time explaining things that in the end didn't matter. No one is asking for that. But therein lies the task of good storytelling.  It was up to them to keep us going, answers or not, and to keep us hooked with those things that in the end, DID matter. In many ways they botched that. We were all invested in this show until the very end, and were in awe of it for so long. Only for them to give us rushed answers, flat revelations, and a "and they all went to the big bright light and lived happily ever after" cliche finale.  Was it emotionally pulling? Did it technically resolve characters? Yes to both questions. We had been with the writers/producers/characters for so long, we couldn't possibly turn back. So, they could've resolved the show an infinite number of ways, and I promise you that we would still have been moved. They could've just as easily used the "St Elsewhere" ending of the show all being in someone's head and there would still be an overwhelming number of people who would've said that they loved it and that it all made perfect sense. Same goes for how we can look back at the characters that in the end did/didn't matter. They could've dumped half of the cast and shifted around the necessary elements between the people that they had left. In fact, that's exactly what they ended up doing.

They did an overwhelming number of things well for a tv show. But within that appeal was hours upon hours of plot elements, and style elements as well. And with Season 5 and Season 6 that quality dropped significantly. Doesn't matter what the back story of the production of the show was. I don't really care about the writer's strike or the sidegames that filled in the missing holes here and there. They had a task of effectively getting from Point A to Point Z, hitting all the letters along the way. Some would remain mysteries, and some would be explained in detail. They got 3/4 the way through the alphabet, and then the writers ran out of time.  So, after they had so painstakingly embellished and elaborated on so many things, they dumped a good quarter of the plot in favor of creating a new storyline that started and resolved within 3 episodes.  Sayid with Shannon? Gimme a break. They may as well have started a new plot line where he started banging Kate midway through the 5th season and it still would've "made sense" in the end, what with how they explained and resolved other things.  Ben killing Jacob still made him good enough for afterlife redemption, but Michael sacrificing himself for the people on the helicopter wasn't good enough to cancel out his own bad deeds?  Without Michael, the candidates would never have survived and would've died on the freighter. Walt appearing as a whisper? And so on and so forth.

Everyone has their theories and revisionism on how these things, and the many other holes, now fit together. But it sounds like most people are taking the path of least resistance and just giving the writers a free pass on the sloppy job, since they did such a good job with the emotional impact. That's great, that's what this show was about. It's all about taking from it what you want. But there is no quick fix, grand scheme to resolve the inaccuracies, that we're all going to agree on, no matter how much anyone wants there to be. 

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: last thoughts, goodbyes, annoyances, and stuff :)
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2010, 01:27:15 PM »
"More of the same" is right. You say certain things didn't matter, and when I explain how they did (With no theories or opinions, just evidence from the show), you don't address them anymore and start skewing it as me against everyone. You said certain things didn't matter in the end. I pointed out how you were wrong. The fact that you don't get that is your issue, not mine. Believe me, I am not upset. If you insist that "the show wasn't obligated to answer every single moment, or spend time explaining things that in the end didn't matter" then start griping about not getting a misplaced scene about the Egyptians that contradicts yourself. You still haven't addressed my question of where you would have put the Egyptians scene you so desired. I still wonder how you are so dense you need to see the answer to something that was made so obvious over the years, but I guess you need your hand held.

The problem I have with people discussing the "Errors" in the show is that in large part they are not errors. The errors or omissions I think did happen unintentionally were because of outside factors. Walt, Eko, and Libby were all intended to have different roles in the show, but couldn't because of outside factors. You will never hear me saying anything contrary. To hold TPTB responsible for these, and to expect them to tie them up in a bow much different from the one intended is unfair. You say I am trying to take ownership of "Common Knowledge" theories? If they are common knowledge than why do I have to keep explaining them to people like you? I didn't post a single "Theory" or assumption in my previous post. I even stated as much in my final sentence. Maybe you missed it. Which would not be the first time, and it won't be the last.