Author Topic: Help need with the church scene  (Read 2165 times)

Offline NoraCharles

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Help need with the church scene
« on: May 25, 2010, 07:40:27 PM »
I get most of it, I really do, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this whole scene. It raises more questions than it answers.

The big one is why was Aaron a baby in the church?
Following the show's logic from Christian Shepherd, he died 'sometime' (we saw him up to 3 years old when they got off the island and Kate was his mom). So he grew up? Lived his life? Died and gets to be a baby again for all eternity?

I also have trouble with who was there and who wasn't.
Penny was, although she'd never been to the island. (and where's their kid?)
Frank Lapidis and Miles weren't, but probably should have, they were there long enough and helped them out enough. Miles was all over the sideways stuff as Sawyer's partner.
Desmond didn't "take" Daniel Faraday/Whidmore with him - why not? The actors were available to play the roles.
Ben didn't go in even though he was "actualized" -- so he was included with the 815ers. (so why weren't Lapidis and Miles?)

And wouldn't it have been cool if Jin met his daughter there too?

I guess I'm confused as to what the "rules" are for this "place".

Any theories or suggestions to understand this are very welcome.

Offline Holland34

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 07:58:14 PM »
I would add some thoughts, but I think I would end up stealing liberally from Jeff Jensen on Entertainment Weekly.com (EW.com).  He posted a part 2 of his weekly recap column today that dived into this a lot of detail that's worth reading and debating.

As for Aaron, I think they were supposedly using the time that immediately followed the plane crash (Sept 22, 2004) as the basis of the Sideways world.  Basically, they created the Sideways world to coincide the timing when they all initially came together in the first place.  Because of this, we got a new born Aaron instead of a grown Aaron.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 08:01:10 PM »
Well my theories, and these are just my own personal ideas:

Frank, Miles, Charlotte, Daniel, the Widmores, etc. they didn't "move on" yet because they weren't "ready". Kinda like what Desmond said about Ana Lucia. Now, I think Ben and Eloise are kind of on the same plane of understanding about the sideflash world. They know what it is, but still want to spend some time in it before moving on. Ben with Alex, and Eloise with Daniel. Similar.

As for the rules, and who makes them...God, Allah, the Great Flying Spagetti Monster, take your pick.

Penny was there because of Desmond. I think we are to assume that Hurley successfully got Desmond off the Island to be reunited with Penny, hence the whole reason of lugging him back up the waterfall. And Penny and Des lived happily ever after. But thats another story. TPTB mentioned there would be another 20 mins on the DVD, and my guess is it will have to do with Des and Penny in the sideflash.

As for why baby Aaron...well...ummm. Ricky Bobby's favorite Jesus was little baby Jesus so thats who he prayed to, so maybe Aaron was happiest as little baby Aaron. Or maybe it wasn't Aaron in the church at all, just a new and improved squirrel baby that Claire made. Or maybe it's because of the Hurley Bird in the other outrigger. :)

Offline NoraCharles

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2010, 08:09:19 PM »
I would add some thoughts, but I think I would end up stealing liberally from Jeff Jensen on Entertainment Weekly.com (EW.com).  He posted a part 2 of his weekly recap column today that dived into this a lot of detail that's worth reading and debating.

Thanks Holland, I'll check out that article.


Well my theories, and these are just my own personal ideas:

Frank, Miles, Charlotte, Daniel, the Widmores, etc. they didn't "move on" yet because they weren't "ready". Kinda like what Desmond said about Ana Lucia. Now, I think Ben and Eloise are kind of on the same plane of understanding about the sideflash world. They know what it is, but still want to spend some time in it before moving on. Ben with Alex, and Eloise with Daniel. Similar.

As for the rules, and who makes them...God, Allah, the Great Flying Spagetti Monster, take your pick.

Penny was there because of Desmond. I think we are to assume that Hurley successfully got Desmond off the Island to be reunited with Penny, hence the whole reason of lugging him back up the waterfall. And Penny and Des lived happily ever after. But thats another story. TPTB mentioned there would be another 20 mins on the DVD, and my guess is it will have to do with Des and Penny in the sideflash.

As for why baby Aaron...well...ummm. Ricky Bobby's favorite Jesus was little baby Jesus so thats who he prayed to, so maybe Aaron was happiest as little baby Aaron. Or maybe it wasn't Aaron in the church at all, just a new and improved squirrel baby that Claire made. Or maybe it's because of the Hurley Bird in the other outrigger. :)

Great ideas CaseyMac! I like them. Thanks for replying.
I especially liked how you mentioned Ricky Bobby's favorite baby Jesus (watching his baby Einstein videos).  ;D

Offline MachThree

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2010, 08:19:37 PM »
I'd say why some were there and some weren't:  combination of being ready for it, or for being important in the lives of everyone else there.

As for why Aaron was a baby or other people appeared at a certain age in the church  - not sure there's a good answer to this.  One idea would be that, as Christian said, the Losties created that world, and the way they created it was roughly consistent with the state of things at the time shortly after flight 815.  Hence Christian is old, Jack is in his 40's, Kate's in her 30's, and Aaron is a baby, etc.  Another idea - since the whole idea is that these people were all important in one another's lives, their age in this "purgatory" represents the time in their lives when they knew each other and were important to one-another.

Of course, I think the real reason is that it wouldn't really be practical to go out and find an adult Aaron or a geriatric Shanon or an infant Kate etc.  It wouldn't hit home with the audience if they didn't just use the actors that played these characters, and without slapping enough makup on them so that they all looked in their 80's or their teens.  

Offline lostandfree

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2010, 08:20:13 PM »
I think that baby Aaron was not the real Aaron, but merely a part of the life that Claire and Charlie created together in their afterlife reality because that was the way Aaron was during the time they were first on the island.  All of these people came together at the end because they were all a part of the most important time in their lives.  Their time on the island was the biggest time in their lives, the most altering, the thing that brought them all together.  Grown up Aaron was not there because he had his own life, he was not aware of the island time that they all share, and it was not the most important part of his life for him.  This is the same for Desmond and Penny's son Charlie.  He had a life separate from the island so he would not have been there.

Offline lostlady

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2010, 09:29:19 PM »
Put it this way- if Claire lived a long full healthy life before she died then realistically she would be 70 or 80 years old. How would that have looked--an ancient Claire, an old Aaron walking into the church to meet Charlie.  :-\

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2010, 01:12:59 AM »
I think that baby Aaron was not the real Aaron, but merely a part of the life that Claire and Charlie created together in their afterlife reality because that was the way Aaron was during the time they were first on the island.  All of these people came together at the end because they were all a part of the most important time in their lives.  Their time on the island was the biggest time in their lives, the most altering, the thing that brought them all together.  Grown up Aaron was not there because he had his own life, he was not aware of the island time that they all share, and it was not the most important part of his life for him.  This is the same for Desmond and Penny's son Charlie.  He had a life separate from the island so he would not have been there.


I like this answer more than my squirrel baby one.

Offline snowyjoe

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2010, 06:46:42 AM »
Put it this way- if Claire lived a long full healthy life before she died then realistically she would be 70 or 80 years old. How would that have looked--an ancient Claire, an old Aaron walking into the church to meet Charlie.  :-\

Well, in accordance to christian teachings... when we go to heaven, we get a new body...

so basically, i guess everyone will be looking their best!

Offline lostlady

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2010, 07:56:49 AM »
Put it this way- if Claire lived a long full healthy life before she died then realistically she would be 70 or 80 years old. How would that have looked--an ancient Claire, an old Aaron walking into the church to meet Charlie.  :-\

Well, in accordance to christian teachings... when we go to heaven, we get a new body...

so basically, i guess everyone will be looking their best!

Thank God!

Offline NoraCharles

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2010, 11:28:07 PM »
For anyone following this thread, in reading a bunch of other articles, I've come up with this theory:

Aaron was a baby in church because in that world, he was indeed just born. His birth was the catalyst for Claire and Kate and then Charlie to remember. So really, Claire just left the concert and went right to the church with the baby. That world seemed to follow the rules of their real world, so it made sense for her to be holding the baby she just gave birth to.

It's possible baby Aaron wasn't even really the Aaron born on the island at all, the baby could have been like Jack's son, and only existed to serve it's purpose in the alt world.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2010, 12:47:53 AM »
It's possible baby Aaron wasn't even really the Aaron born on the island at all, the baby could have been like Jack's son, and only existed to serve it's purpose in the alt world.

I like that logic actually. I don't think it's a big issue, but I think I'll use this answer.

Offline LouE68

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2010, 02:03:52 AM »
i think you have to think out of the box from any traditional religion...for one, we don't know for sure what the afterlife is like...how I percieve you may not be how you percieve me...after all, We are stardust, we are golden,
We are billion year old carbon,
And we got to get ourselves back to the garden

Offline Madam P

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2010, 11:32:04 AM »
My theory on it (currently, anyway, LOL) is that the church scene we saw is Jack's moment... just Jack's.  Not anybody else's... although they were "there" to help him let go and cross over.  This was the split-second-point-in-eternity when all of Jack's life experiences came together, so that he could die and cross over.  Thus, all the people that were "there" were there because that was how they looked to him when they were most important to him (Christian said "your time on the island was the most important time in your life.")  Aaron was a baby at that most important on-island time, so that's how Jack "sees" him. 

I know this has some holes, but it's all I've got right now so I'm clinging to it like Michael and Sawyer clinging to the raft wreckage...  :)

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Help need with the church scene
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2010, 11:48:05 AM »
I get what you are saying about "Jack's Moment", but I think we were shown the Hurley, Ben exchange to show that it was also their moment, and thus we can deduce it was everyone's moment. Also the interaction between Eloise and Desmond. Would have been no point in Desmond taking Daniel if the moment is just for Jack.