Author Topic: Questions?  (Read 5404 times)

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Questions?
« on: May 25, 2010, 11:00:28 AM »
Okay so I keep reading about questions people have about things on the show. I feel very comfortable with how everything was tied up, and have stated that many times. Every time I ask someone for specifics on questions they still have on the show I am left with another explaination about how the show left questions unanswered. No specifics are mentioned. You'd think with this plethora of unanswered questions I could get a new list to work on. So I figured maybe I would start a new thread. Specific questions will get specific answers. If a specific question elicits a longer response that has already been answered at length to my knowledge I'll llink to it. Not being a prick with this, I am just trying to help.

Offline katbriil

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2010, 11:39:31 AM »
Not my question, so go easy on me (because I'm in the "it doesn't matter" camp). My husband is endlessly irritated that once we were shown the heart of the island, we saw a bunch of tunnels leading to the pool. He wants to know - who created that "heart of the island" chamber, with the stone tunnels and carved plug and everything? And who created the island in the first place?

Like I said - not my question, but if you can come up with some semblance of an answer, I can at least tell him to STFU.

Offline louisianagirl76l

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2010, 11:52:39 AM »
Not my question, so go easy on me (because I'm in the "it doesn't matter" camp). My husband is endlessly irritated that once we were shown the heart of the island, we saw a bunch of tunnels leading to the pool. He wants to know - who created that "heart of the island" chamber, with the stone tunnels and carved plug and everything? And who created the island in the first place?

Like I said - not my question, but if you can come up with some semblance of an answer, I can at least tell him to STFU.

You can tell him to STFU anyway ;) I kid...sorta....

Offline katbriil

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2010, 11:55:15 AM »
Not my question, so go easy on me (because I'm in the "it doesn't matter" camp). My husband is endlessly irritated that once we were shown the heart of the island, we saw a bunch of tunnels leading to the pool. He wants to know - who created that "heart of the island" chamber, with the stone tunnels and carved plug and everything? And who created the island in the first place?

Like I said - not my question, but if you can come up with some semblance of an answer, I can at least tell him to STFU.

You can tell him to STFU anyway ;) I kid...sorta....


Oh believe me, I do on a regular basis. Our conversation goes like this:
-I just want to KNOW. I liked the ending, but I wish they had told me more.
-It doesn't matter. You're missing the point.
-No, I get the point, but I still want to know.
-Shut up. I can't talk about this with you anymore.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2010, 12:06:54 PM »
HAHA. Well The chamber was most likely created by the first protector. The GOD of the island if you will. THat is probably why it was never answered. They did not want to put the onus singularly on one deity. The Island and the Chamber was most likely created by the same power that created the universe. We saw people had, in the past, attempted to enter the chamber with deadly results. They couldn't make it to the center. This stands to reason that the only person to have a hand in creating the Island could have been a deity.

Offline louisianagirl76l

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2010, 12:08:13 PM »
Not my question, so go easy on me (because I'm in the "it doesn't matter" camp). My husband is endlessly irritated that once we were shown the heart of the island, we saw a bunch of tunnels leading to the pool. He wants to know - who created that "heart of the island" chamber, with the stone tunnels and carved plug and everything? And who created the island in the first place?

Like I said - not my question, but if you can come up with some semblance of an answer, I can at least tell him to STFU.

You can tell him to STFU anyway ;) I kid...sorta....


Oh believe me, I do on a regular basis. Our conversation goes like this:
-I just want to KNOW. I liked the ending, but I wish they had told me more.
-It doesn't matter. You're missing the point.
-No, I get the point, but I still want to know.
-Shut up. I can't talk about this with you anymore.

I get this:
Him: So how was your show?
Me: *Sobbing hysterically* "G-g-good"
Him: ....
Me: *sobbing still*
Him: So what happened? (hasn't watched any of the show at all.)
Me: "I don't have 6 years to explain it to you. Go watch the DVDs"

Offline MachThree

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2010, 12:27:23 PM »
Not my question, so go easy on me (because I'm in the "it doesn't matter" camp). My husband is endlessly irritated that once we were shown the heart of the island, we saw a bunch of tunnels leading to the pool. He wants to know - who created that "heart of the island" chamber, with the stone tunnels and carved plug and everything? And who created the island in the first place?

Like I said - not my question, but if you can come up with some semblance of an answer, I can at least tell him to STFU.
As far as I can tell, that is something we simply weren't shown / told in the show.  Maybe it was meant to be implied that the people MiB was hanging out with were the ones who built all that.  But I think folks find flaws in that idea because those guys seemed to be Roman (Claudia spoke Latin I think) whereas everything seemed to have an Egyptian element to it - i.e. The Lighthouse = The Lighthouse at Alexandria, the huge statue of the Egyptian god, etc.  

Offline sobrien

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2010, 12:46:20 PM »
OK, let me toss one question out that I believe not to be trivial and not explained, and warranting an explanation:

Given that Jacob did not want people stumbling on the island and seemed to have made it very difficult to get there, how was it that the island remained so well populated?  The tribe was there during MIB/Jacob time; Dharma was there, the Others were there, there were temples, villages, housing developments, science stations, but mothers could not have children, so natural propagation of a population seems out of the question - meaning only immigration to the island could support long term (and it was long term) population.  Why did Jacob allow all that?  Surely Dharma was by its nature of investigation a serious threat to the island's mystery.

Offline cookieshoes

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2010, 01:08:33 PM »
Every time I ask someone for specifics on questions they still have on the show I am left with another explaination about how the show left questions unanswered.

Here are some of mine: Walt (how was he communicating to Michael in the Hatch and then appearing as a whisper when he wasn't dead), the numbers (lottery, candidate numbers, hatch numbers - now it's all just a coincidence? That's a cop out. Apparently if Jacob can control all that, why couldn't he just send one perfect candidate over to take his place?), Egyptians (why is it just THEIR writing everywhere? And what about the timeline errors with them appearing before Jacob/MiB?), Eloise (how was she skipping through time advising Desmond in the ring shop?), Why Juliet got "marked" and the point of that, why Jack's tattoo made him stand apart from others, Jack seeing Christian off-island, Kate having nightmares of Claire, why was Penny looking for electromagnetic occurrences with her station, Jacob's cabin moving around (why was he living in the statue then?), why the hell Shannon was supposed to matter all of a sudden to Sayid in the finale as opposed to Nadia, the Dharma food drops, Hanso, the Others in jungle outfits, why the wheel dumped in Tunisia, the Temple, what happened to Ben to bring him back to life (why could he be brought back but no one else could?), etc. etc. etc.

The problem is that any answer that any viewer can give to the above will only be their opinion. These were all huge moments/people in the show that were bombshells when they appeared, and which the writers started ignoring, starting during the 4th season. So, by Season 5 we started seeing new questions arise that we had never cared about before (Jacob, anyone?), most of which were all sloppily connected to the hasty answers given in Season 6. So, we the viewer were left with 4 seasons worth of intrigue and obsession over details, and then given 2 seasons of quick and underplayed one-liners to explain a handful of questions that would give the appearance of tying up the "loose ends".

So, to try and state now that there aren't any questions that didn't get answered, or which apparently aren't important anymore is ridiculous.  This is how the writers/producers got us all hooked, by giving us questions and an obsession with details. They kept going on and on and on about the significance of things, and then it all came to a halt. They built a show around the intrigue and the mystery and the coincidences. They explained a TON of things, but left even more things unexplained, only to give us "don't worry about all those questions" and a line of logic that they had invented in Season 5 when they brought in Jacob.    

No, they didn't have to answer everything. It would've completely ruined the show for a lot of people if they did.  Personally, I'm glad that they didn't, to a degree. But that doesn't mean that we should be expected to ignore the inconsistencies between the things that they didn't answer and the things they did (i.e. timeline errors, character oddities, significance/insignificance of things).

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2010, 01:16:17 PM »
Not my question, so go easy on me (because I'm in the "it doesn't matter" camp). My husband is endlessly irritated that once we were shown the heart of the island, we saw a bunch of tunnels leading to the pool. He wants to know - who created that "heart of the island" chamber, with the stone tunnels and carved plug and everything? And who created the island in the first place?

Like I said - not my question, but if you can come up with some semblance of an answer, I can at least tell him to STFU.

I think the church at the end was a nod toward the answers they didn't give us about the island.  The stained glass window showed multi-denominational symbols.  There were Christian statues as well as Jewish, Buddhist, etc. objects all around.  To me, the creator of the cave also created the light itself and the light is life, the one thing science has yet to explain, let alone create.  The creator is many different things to many different people and most likely, none of us are completely right about that mystery either.  I was brought up as a Christian, so the island to me represents the Garden of Eden, the source of life and (through sin) death.  I'm not a theologian, but I'm sure other religions have their own versions of the birthplace of life.  THAT is why they wouldn't ever TELL us what the island was.  Not to sound cynical, but had they actually called it the Garden of Eden, they would have lost alot of viewers who believe differently or who don't believe at all.  They left it up to our own individual faiths and beliefs.  

I wonder, of the fans who are sorely disappointed with the finale, how many of them are atheists?  I think that may explain the wide difference of opinions!

Offline lostlady

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2010, 01:19:33 PM »
I agree there are a lot of mysteries that were presented and then never solved. It is this way and cannot bechanged. All we can do is offer opinions to each other that hopefully make sense. It's a lot like great classic literature. It is debated and questioned and that is part of what makes it so great and frustrating at the same time.

As for the questions above they are valid. I can take a stab at what was my biggest question--Eloise. How did she know so much??? Well, from what I have been able to piece together is that she has been dead and in the sideways timeline for quite awhile (with Daniel). She is enlightened like Desmond so knows both worlds.

Offline MachThree

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2010, 01:54:33 PM »
I agree there are a lot of mysteries that were presented and then never solved. It is this way and cannot bechanged. All we can do is offer opinions to each other that hopefully make sense. It's a lot like great classic literature. It is debated and questioned and that is part of what makes it so great and frustrating at the same time.

As for the questions above they are valid. I can take a stab at what was my biggest question--Eloise. How did she know so much??? Well, from what I have been able to piece together is that she has been dead and in the sideways timeline for quite awhile (with Daniel). She is enlightened like Desmond so knows both worlds.

re: Eloise - I think this requires some analysis of what she knew, and when.  Not sure I've got this figured all out, but here's my best interpretation

Back in the 50's, she didn't seem to know anything.  She doesn't recognize Faraday or anyone else.

Ditto for the 70's, when she killed Farraday and helped with the Jughead plan. 

However, at that point in time, she took possession of Farraday's journal, and therefore we can assume that from that point forward, she knew everything Faraday did up until that point in time (well, best not to say "point in time", better to say "point in Faraday's life") and had written that in the journal, which includes all of Farraday's knowledge of the "real" world through 2004 when he boarded the freighter.  It includes all of Faraday's equations and research.  It also includes an indication from Faraday that Desmond is special ("If anything happens, Desmond Hume will be MY constant"), plus perhaps (probably) other Desmond tidbits - remember, Farraday knew Desmond was special, that's why he went to him in the hatch when the time flashes started and told him to find Hawking in the future.     

All of Desmond's flashbacks in that episode where we first meet Hawking, like when he tries to buy the wedding ring and breaks up with Penny and Hawking is appearing, she presumably knew everything about Desmond from whatever else might have been in Faraday's journal.     

When Desmond is shot by Ben in 2007, Hawking doesn't know what will happen.  Why?  Faraday's journal only covers up until 2004 in the real world. 

Hawkings knowledge in the Alt. timeline?  She seemed to be in a state where she had awoken to memories of her past life, but had chosen not to move on, or was unable to.  Perhaps due to guilt over having killed Faraday.  Guilt also seemed to be holding Ben back from moving on.  I think everything Hawking said in the alt. in Desmond's episode, about people not being ready, etc., was all related to being able to become aware of their past lives, that they were in purgatory, and being ready to move on.  It had nothing to do with any supernatural knowledge of the island or the universe in the regular timeline. 

Offline lostlady

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2010, 02:03:50 PM »
you are right in 2007 she does say "for the first time in my life I don't know what will happen next" so Farraday's journal did play a role in her knowledge. Then in the Alt world she was aware but like Ben chose not to move on.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2010, 02:13:42 PM »
OK, let me toss one question out that I believe not to be trivial and not explained, and warranting an explanation:

Given that Jacob did not want people stumbling on the island and seemed to have made it very difficult to get there, how was it that the island remained so well populated?  The tribe was there during MIB/Jacob time; Dharma was there, the Others were there, there were temples, villages, housing developments, science stations, but mothers could not have children, so natural propagation of a population seems out of the question - meaning only immigration to the island could support long term (and it was long term) population.  Why did Jacob allow all that?  Surely Dharma was by its nature of investigation a serious threat to the island's mystery.

They couldn't make the Island not exist, so because of the very explorative nature of mankind, people were bound to happen upon the island. The only evidence we have of sustained developement on the island is Dharma, and Jacob ended up putting an end to that with the Purge. The only way they were able to sustain things was by finding a way to come and go as they pleased. The other inhabitants we know of are the Egyptians, and MiB's people. It is reasonable to assume that some of those inhabitants were pregnant at the time of arrival, so a slightly sustainable level of living could have been the case. In the end though they all died. Dharma was the only group that needed to be purged, and that was because their progress toward the light was steady and they would eventually reach it.

Every time I ask someone for specifics on questions they still have on the show I am left with another explaination about how the show left questions unanswered.

Here are some of mine: Walt (how was he communicating to Michael in the Hatch and then appearing as a whisper when he wasn't dead), the numbers (lottery, candidate numbers, hatch numbers - now it's all just a coincidence? That's a cop out. Apparently if Jacob can control all that, why couldn't he just send one perfect candidate over to take his place?), Egyptians (why is it just THEIR writing everywhere? And what about the timeline errors with them appearing before Jacob/MiB?), Eloise (how was she skipping through time advising Desmond in the ring shop?), Why Juliet got "marked" and the point of that, why Jack's tattoo made him stand apart from others, Jack seeing Christian off-island, Kate having nightmares of Claire, why was Penny looking for electromagnetic occurrences with her station, Jacob's cabin moving around (why was he living in the statue then?), why the hell Shannon was supposed to matter all of a sudden to Sayid in the finale as opposed to Nadia, the Dharma food drops, Hanso, the Others in jungle outfits, why the wheel dumped in Tunisia, the Temple, what happened to Ben to bring him back to life (why could he be brought back but no one else could?), etc. etc. etc.

  

Walt was intended to be a part of the show all along, but hit a growth spurt, and now can play a thirty year old. Instead of recasting they wrote him out.

The numbers were assigned to each potential candidate. When Jacob learned that a plane would crash on the island he started watching the plane's inhabitants. He selected from that group, 42 potential candidates and went around touching them to signify they were candidates. The connection between the numbers being on the hatch, and Hurley playing the numbers, and the guy muttering the numbers over the airwaves and whatnot, that is all part of the same fateful Story. Dude hired by Dharma to be the first person to push the button. He does it for a very long time. Goes a bit insane. Makes it to the radio tower to broadcast the numbers as that is now all he knows. Heard by Hurley's guy in Santa Rosa. Plays them in the lottery. If they would have told us that each of the survivors was given a number and then told us that one would be selected to replace the Protector of the island in the first season, those numbers would have fit very well together and we would go on wondering who every number belonged to. They just played the suspense backwards for us, which made us create all this extra wonder behind the numbers.

Jacob couldn't just select the Perfect candidate, because there is no such thing.  No one is perfect, and that was kind of the theme of the show.

Egyptian writing is the only kind all over the place because it seems like besides Dharma they were the ones able to sustain the longest lasting society on the island. Since they can't have children there, it stands to reason that they crashed with a large group of people.

Not sure what you mean about the timeline errors there. We know that the island shifts in time, so timeline errors are not really errors all the time. Also, I think Egyptian writing would predate Jacob's people anyway, but that's just me.

Eloise was in all likelyhood special like Desmond. She knew things about the future and ahad total awareness in the ALT.

Juliet's marking was an instance of a primitive society enforcing their own justice.

Jack's tatoo...was a tatoo. He met up with a woman who knew what the writing said. Why it said that was most likely a branding of sorts by the tatooist there before she sent her people after him. It seemed fitting on the island which added to the destiny argument.

Jack saw Christian the same way I sometimes see people I have Lost. They bumped up the surprise for dramatic effect, but in all, it was an apparition.

Kate's nightmares were the manifestation of her guilt that she left the island, seperated a mother from her child, and left Claire on the island.

Penny was looking for electro magnetic anomolies for 1 of 2 reasons. 1.) She wasn't looking for them specifically, but anything out of the ordinary that might lead her to the man that she loved. or 2.) Because they needed Penny to somehow find the island and be able to communicate with it so The Charlie, Desmond, Penny scene could happen. I'm going with #1.

Jacob's Cabin moved the same way the Light is hidden. It was the way to protect the cabin from imposters using it.

Nadia may have either already moved on with someone else, or through a different collective conciousness. I actually though Shannon meant more to Sayid than Nadia did. I always thought Sayid was referring to Shannon when he asked for the person he loved that "Died in his arms"

Dharma food drops worked the same way Faradys' rocket Experiment worked. Time flux between the Island and the outside world.

As to why Tunisia, I have a theory on that, but it is just a theory that has very little to back it up, so it is probably wrong.

Hanso...We never even saw him, and his biggest moment on the show was in a side game.

The Others dressed up in rags to keep up appearances that they were savages and primitive. If they kept showing up in nice Dockers, questions would be asked, and cvilization would be sought out.

Temple was built by the Egyptians. Hence the writing.

Ben was saved because he wasn't completely dead and still inherently good. That's why it wouldn't work for Sayid. who is the only person we saw it not work with.

Offline louisianagirl76l

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Re: Questions?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2010, 02:52:49 PM »
OK, let me toss one question out that I believe not to be trivial and not explained, and warranting an explanation:

Given that Jacob did not want people stumbling on the island and seemed to have made it very difficult to get there, how was it that the island remained so well populated?  The tribe was there during MIB/Jacob time; Dharma was there, the Others were there, there were temples, villages, housing developments, science stations, but mothers could not have children, so natural propagation of a population seems out of the question - meaning only immigration to the island could support long term (and it was long term) population.  Why did Jacob allow all that?  Surely Dharma was by its nature of investigation a serious threat to the island's mystery.

They couldn't make the Island not exist, so because of the very explorative nature of mankind, people were bound to happen upon the island. The only evidence we have of sustained developement on the island is Dharma, and Jacob ended up putting an end to that with the Purge. The only way they were able to sustain things was by finding a way to come and go as they pleased. The other inhabitants we know of are the Egyptians, and MiB's people. It is reasonable to assume that some of those inhabitants were pregnant at the time of arrival, so a slightly sustainable level of living could have been the case. In the end though they all died. Dharma was the only group that needed to be purged, and that was because their progress toward the light was steady and they would eventually reach it.

Every time I ask someone for specifics on questions they still have on the show I am left with another explaination about how the show left questions unanswered.

Here are some of mine: Walt (how was he communicating to Michael in the Hatch and then appearing as a whisper when he wasn't dead), the numbers (lottery, candidate numbers, hatch numbers - now it's all just a coincidence? That's a cop out. Apparently if Jacob can control all that, why couldn't he just send one perfect candidate over to take his place?), Egyptians (why is it just THEIR writing everywhere? And what about the timeline errors with them appearing before Jacob/MiB?), Eloise (how was she skipping through time advising Desmond in the ring shop?), Why Juliet got "marked" and the point of that, why Jack's tattoo made him stand apart from others, Jack seeing Christian off-island, Kate having nightmares of Claire, why was Penny looking for electromagnetic occurrences with her station, Jacob's cabin moving around (why was he living in the statue then?), why the hell Shannon was supposed to matter all of a sudden to Sayid in the finale as opposed to Nadia, the Dharma food drops, Hanso, the Others in jungle outfits, why the wheel dumped in Tunisia, the Temple, what happened to Ben to bring him back to life (why could he be brought back but no one else could?), etc. etc. etc.

  

Walt was intended to be a part of the show all along, but hit a growth spurt, and now can play a thirty year old. Instead of recasting they wrote him out.

The numbers were assigned to each potential candidate. When Jacob learned that a plane would crash on the island he started watching the plane's inhabitants. He selected from that group, 42 potential candidates and went around touching them to signify they were candidates. The connection between the numbers being on the hatch, and Hurley playing the numbers, and the guy muttering the numbers over the airwaves and whatnot, that is all part of the same fateful Story. Dude hired by Dharma to be the first person to push the button. He does it for a very long time. Goes a bit insane. Makes it to the radio tower to broadcast the numbers as that is now all he knows. Heard by Hurley's guy in Santa Rosa. Plays them in the lottery. If they would have told us that each of the survivors was given a number and then told us that one would be selected to replace the Protector of the island in the first season, those numbers would have fit very well together and we would go on wondering who every number belonged to. They just played the suspense backwards for us, which made us create all this extra wonder behind the numbers.

Jacob couldn't just select the Perfect candidate, because there is no such thing.  No one is perfect, and that was kind of the theme of the show.

Egyptian writing is the only kind all over the place because it seems like besides Dharma they were the ones able to sustain the longest lasting society on the island. Since they can't have children there, it stands to reason that they crashed with a large group of people.

Not sure what you mean about the timeline errors there. We know that the island shifts in time, so timeline errors are not really errors all the time. Also, I think Egyptian writing would predate Jacob's people anyway, but that's just me.

Eloise was in all likelyhood special like Desmond. She knew things about the future and ahad total awareness in the ALT.

Juliet's marking was an instance of a primitive society enforcing their own justice.

Jack's tatoo...was a tatoo. He met up with a woman who knew what the writing said. Why it said that was most likely a branding of sorts by the tatooist there before she sent her people after him. It seemed fitting on the island which added to the destiny argument.

Jack saw Christian the same way I sometimes see people I have Lost. They bumped up the surprise for dramatic effect, but in all, it was an apparition.

Kate's nightmares were the manifestation of her guilt that she left the island, seperated a mother from her child, and left Claire on the island.

Penny was looking for electro magnetic anomolies for 1 of 2 reasons. 1.) She wasn't looking for them specifically, but anything out of the ordinary that might lead her to the man that she loved. or 2.) Because they needed Penny to somehow find the island and be able to communicate with it so The Charlie, Desmond, Penny scene could happen. I'm going with #1.

Jacob's Cabin moved the same way the Light is hidden. It was the way to protect the cabin from imposters using it.

Nadia may have either already moved on with someone else, or through a different collective conciousness. I actually though Shannon meant more to Sayid than Nadia did. I always thought Sayid was referring to Shannon when he asked for the person he loved that "Died in his arms"

Dharma food drops worked the same way Faradys' rocket Experiment worked. Time flux between the Island and the outside world.

As to why Tunisia, I have a theory on that, but it is just a theory that has very little to back it up, so it is probably wrong.

Hanso...We never even saw him, and his biggest moment on the show was in a side game.

The Others dressed up in rags to keep up appearances that they were savages and primitive. If they kept showing up in nice Dockers, questions would be asked, and cvilization would be sought out.

Temple was built by the Egyptians. Hence the writing.

Ben was saved because he wasn't completely dead and still inherently good. That's why it wouldn't work for Sayid. who is the only person we saw it not work with.


Ben had to leave from the island if he turned the wheel....so why NOT Tunisia...could have been anywhere IMO...Could have been dropped at the feet of the Sphinx ...or my backyard....As long as it wasn't on the island. I dunno...thats my take on it.