Author Topic: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?  (Read 3349 times)

Offline RM

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At this point, TPTB seem to be pushing the idea that all of this searching for meaning in numbers, lists, crossed-out names on a cave wall, has been just silly human superstition.  "It's just a chalk line on a wall."  "Locke was a sucker who thought he was special."

Are they really purposely pushing this as the moral to this story ... or is it that they just couldn't come up with a master plan that connected all the dots of the mysteries they created that was consistent enough to hold up to scrutiny; so they have just bailed out on numerous plot points by casting them off as "they didn't really mean anything, anyway"?

Offline lostandfree

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2010, 08:39:39 PM »
Why does there have to be a moral?  There isn't a moral to every story is there?

Offline MachThree

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2010, 11:24:20 PM »
At this point, TPTB seem to be pushing the idea that all of this searching for meaning in numbers, lists, crossed-out names on a cave wall, has been just silly human superstition.  "It's just a chalk line on a wall."  "Locke was a sucker who thought he was special."

Are they really purposely pushing this as the moral to this story ... or is it that they just couldn't come up with a master plan that connected all the dots of the mysteries they created that was consistent enough to hold up to scrutiny; so they have just bailed out on numerous plot points by casting them off as "they didn't really mean anything, anyway"?

I don't think Lost is going to turn out to be a story where there's a moral to it.  If there is, it will be very much open to interpretation - they aren't going to spell it out for us, but then, isn't that what we've come to expect from Lost, and, even if in a frustrating way, isn't that what we love about Lost?

Offline jamesl

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2010, 03:30:26 AM »
if what you're saying is that everything they've shown us have been red herrings and have had absolutely nothing to do with the main plot,
then yes

there was nothing special about walt reading a comic book with a polar bear and then all of a sudden a polar bear appearing on a tropical island
walt has no special powers
never did

the numbers:  not good, not bad, not anything, just numbers

Dharma and Hanso: just a bunch of scientists who stumbled on an island, nothing special about them

Jack's line to Locke in the alt time line when Locke agrees to the operation sums up the writer's response to all the fan's theories best
"What you see as fate is just coincidence"

I still like the show, but its lost a lot of luster for me


Offline CaseyMac

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2010, 03:37:28 AM »
I think it would be clear by now that Lost doesn't just have 1 theme, but touched on many themes. I think it would be pretty lame if the end of the show had a South Park-esque "I learned something today..."

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2010, 08:05:16 AM »
George Lucas sent Lindelof a letter.

"Congratulations on pulling off an amazing show. Don’t tell anyone … but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories — let’s call them homages — and you’ve got a series.

In six seasons, you’ve managed to span both time and space, and I don’t think I’m alone in saying that I never saw what was around the corner. Now that it’s all coming to an end, it’s impressive to see how much was planned out in advance and how neatly you’ve wrapped up everything. You’ve created something really special. I’m sad that the series is ending, but I look forward to seeing what you two are going to do next."

After the letter was read, Lindelof joked, “I just want to apologize to Mr. George Lucas for everything I said about the prequels…”

Offline Suzanne4au2

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2010, 09:30:59 AM »
George Lucas sent Lindelof a letter.

"Congratulations on pulling off an amazing show. Don’t tell anyone … but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories — let’s call them homages — and you’ve got a series.

In six seasons, you’ve managed to span both time and space, and I don’t think I’m alone in saying that I never saw what was around the corner. Now that it’s all coming to an end, it’s impressive to see how much was planned out in advance and how neatly you’ve wrapped up everything. You’ve created something really special. I’m sad that the series is ending, but I look forward to seeing what you two are going to do next."

After the letter was read, Lindelof joked, “I just want to apologize to Mr. George Lucas for everything I said about the prequels…”

that is great! I heard about the letter but had not read it yet. Thanks for posting it. That is a huge honor for those guys!!!

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2010, 10:57:38 AM »
At this point, TPTB seem to be pushing the idea that all of this searching for meaning in numbers, lists, crossed-out names on a cave wall, has been just silly human superstition.  "It's just a chalk line on a wall."  "Locke was a sucker who thought he was special."

Are they really purposely pushing this as the moral to this story ... or is it that they just couldn't come up with a master plan that connected all the dots of the mysteries they created that was consistent enough to hold up to scrutiny; so they have just bailed out on numerous plot points by casting them off as "they didn't really mean anything, anyway"?

I don't think Lost is going to turn out to be a story where there's a moral to it.  If there is, it will be very much open to interpretation - they aren't going to spell it out for us, but then, isn't that what we've come to expect from Lost, and, even if in a frustrating way, isn't that what we love about Lost?

I've heard TPTB have said there will be a definite ending but that alot of it will be left up to our interpretation.  This doesn't have to be a bad thing.  Some of us see the island as the Garden of Eden, some as Atlantis, some may think it's the fountain of youth, whatever.  Even jacob's 'Mother' probably never knew for sure.  It makes sense that we should be left feeling like we were one of the characters.  We went through the past six years with them, committed ourselves to this place, always questioning what was happening around us and never knowing what was going to happen next.  Now, we can walk away, maybe with some mysteries still left unanswered, but knowing in the end that we did the right thing by seeing it through.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2010, 11:18:39 AM »
if what you're saying is that everything they've shown us have been red herrings and have had absolutely nothing to do with the main plot,
then yes

there was nothing special about walt reading a comic book with a polar bear and then all of a sudden a polar bear appearing on a tropical island
walt has no special powers
never did

the numbers:  not good, not bad, not anything, just numbers

Dharma and Hanso: just a bunch of scientists who stumbled on an island, nothing special about them

Jack's line to Locke in the alt time line when Locke agrees to the operation sums up the writer's response to all the fan's theories best
"What you see as fate is just coincidence"

I still like the show, but its lost a lot of luster for me



I really don't understand alot of the malcontent with the show. The writers made us care and analyze tiny little things that were placed in the show for substance. That takes mastery of your craft. To say that the show is going to lose alot of its meaning or moral because the NUMBERS MEAN LESS THAN YOU THOUGHT, or because Dharma turned out to be another group of people that found the island (Which by the way is inaccurate, because they were a group that was exploiting the very nature of the island by coming to and fro, AND coming dangerously close to finding the Light), is kind of childish. I understand that alot of us had this grand Idea that all the questions that we pondered over would be tied up with one neat little bow, but that Neat little bow would have been the one ending everyone was dreading. The only way you can tie all the tiny insignificant things together into one neat little plot line would be to have it all take place in a dream, or the mind of a psychotic, or autistic. If they ended it that way would anyone be happy? Probably not. The fact is the writers made their show and left it at that.

Were the Numbers significant? Yes they signified the last 6 candidates that would be left over at the end. That would have been supremely important if they would have told us the purpose behind the island sooner, but they kept that a mystery and rightly so. If when everyone landed they were told that they were all (or most of them) candidates to be the protector of the island and were each given a number. Then they find the hatch with the numbers on it they would have held significant importance. However they wouldn't tie in to some mystical properties where they mean something more. What could be more significant than the numbers signify the last six candidates that would be left over to save humanity from apparent annihilation?

Was Dharma Significant? Yes they found a way to do what no other society that crashed on the island had ever done. They came and went as they pleased, and began building a flourishing society that had staying power because they found a way around that pesky "Can't have Kids" property of the island. The story of Dharma is a story that illustrates what great lengths the protector of the island must go to for the protection of the Light. Dharma was getting too big and too close, so The Purge was ordered.

Did Walt have powers? Still debatable, but I say yes. Its still a theory though, so until I have a little better grasp on it I am going to leave it out of this post. (Has to do with Believing in something manifests itself into reality on the island. I think Walt has the ability to do that off Island as well. Its still weak.)

The moral of this story is that no matter how Lost you may feel, there is still a chance for redemption, love, and purpose to life.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 01:01:49 PM by I_Am_Jacob »

Offline lostlady

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2010, 12:21:33 PM »

The moral of this story is that no matter how Lost you may feel, there is still a chance for redemption, love, and purpose to life.

That's the theme of Lost in a nutshell!

Offline WhatThe

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2010, 12:41:32 PM »
George Lucas sent Lindelof a letter.

"Congratulations on pulling off an amazing show. Don’t tell anyone … but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories — let’s call them homages — and you’ve got a series.

In six seasons, you’ve managed to span both time and space, and I don’t think I’m alone in saying that I never saw what was around the corner. Now that it’s all coming to an end, it’s impressive to see how much was planned out in advance and how neatly you’ve wrapped up everything. You’ve created something really special. I’m sad that the series is ending, but I look forward to seeing what you two are going to do next."

After the letter was read, Lindelof joked, “I just want to apologize to Mr. George Lucas for everything I said about the prequels…”


So George Lucas thinks the writers were making things up as they went along, too, eh? lol

Offline WhatThe

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2010, 12:55:09 PM »
if what you're saying is that everything they've shown us have been red herrings and have had absolutely nothing to do with the main plot,
then yes

there was nothing special about walt reading a comic book with a polar bear and then all of a sudden a polar bear appearing on a tropical island
walt has no special powers
never did

the numbers:  not good, not bad, not anything, just numbers

Dharma and Hanso: just a bunch of scientists who stumbled on an island, nothing special about them

Jack's line to Locke in the alt time line when Locke agrees to the operation sums up the writer's response to all the fan's theories best
"What you see as fate is just coincidence"

I still like the show, but its lost a lot of luster for me



I really don't understand alot of the malcontent with the show. The writers made us care and analyze tiny little things that were placed in the show for substance. That takes mastery of your craft. To say that the show is going to lose alot of its meaning or moral because the NUMBERS MEAN LESS THAN YOU THOUGHT, or because Dharma turned out to be another group of people that found the island (Which by the way is inaccurate, because they were a group that was exploiting the very nature of the island by coming to and fro, AND coming dangerously close to finding the Light), is kind of childish.

To be fair, jamesl didn't say the show would lose a lot of its meaning or moral, he said it would lose a lot of its luster...and I agree 1,000% with him.

The big things that hooked me into "Lost" will end up being diminished--losing its "luster"--if I tell myself that 50% of the stuff I cared about over the last 6 years ended up not mattering and won't be addressed because ultimately the writers felt they were unimportant to the story...that they don't need to be explained or tied into the events going on now or even make any logical sense because it has been decided for me that I shouldn't have cared or be caring about these things now. That I'm somehow less or worse of a fan of the show FOR still caring about them or that my opinion of the show is less valid because I cared and still care about these things.

Put another way...if "Lost" had been done as well as I was expecting it to be, I could go back and re-watch the entire 6 seasons of episodes and a lot of things that had me a little confused the first time would gain a lot of clarity. A lot of things I never noticed the first time I would indeed notice the 2nd and 3rd times around and understand their meaning and importance. The show would become even better with subsequent viewings because of this. Unfortunately, I already know that if I watch "Lost" again, I'll only come up with even MORE questions that go unanswered, even MORE issues that contradict each other, and I will still be wondering why so much importance was initially placed on aspects of the show that turned out to be unimportant and offered zero in terms of getting us to understand what's really going on with the island.

Aspects of "Lost" have been compared in the past to the movie "Donnie Darko", and I understand why. But with that movie, I rewatched it and gained a LOT of clarity on some things, and I noticed a LOT of things the 2nd and 3rd times around that were actually important that I missed the 1st time around. It really made that movie become even better. And when I understood exactly what had been occurring in the film through reading The Philosophy Of Time Travel on the Darko website, it tied in sooooo much of the events of the movie into a cohesive whole, that I couldn't help but walk away impressed and feeling that the movie was an even richer experience than I thought after the first viewing.

"Lost" had that same opportunity to create that same type of experience. But I feel as if TPTB just really dropped the ball in that regard. In my eyes, "Lost" is now an above-average TV drama with some really cool episodes and characters, but little else. Strangely enough I'm not exactly ultra-excited about the finale. Definitely will be watching, of course. But there's zero anxiousness or excitement about it in my mind. There have been a few too many disappointing moments and disappointing explanations given--both within the show and within interviews by the creators--that have diminished the show's overall effect.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 01:03:50 PM by WhatThe »

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2010, 01:09:49 PM »

To be fair, jamesl didn't say the show would lose a lot of its meaning or moral, he said it would lose a lot of its luster...and I agree 1,000% with him.

The big things that hooked me into "Lost" will end up being diminished--losing its "luster"--if I tell myself that 50% of the stuff I cared about over the last 6 years ended up not mattering and won't be addressed because ultimately the writers felt they were unimportant to the story...that they don't need to be explained or tied into the events going on now or even make any logical sense because it has been decided for me that I shouldn't have cared or be caring about these things now. That I'm somehow less or worse of a fan of the show FOR still caring about them or that my opinion of the show is less valid because I cared and still care about these things.

Put another way...if "Lost" had been done as well as I was expecting it to be, I could go back and re-watch the entire 6 seasons of episodes and a lot of things that had me a little confused the first time would gain a lot of clarity. A lot of things I never noticed the first time I would indeed notice the 2nd and 3rd times around and understand their meaning and importance. The show would become even better with subsequent viewings because of this. Unfortunately, I already know that if I watch "Lost" again, I'll only come up with even MORE questions that go unanswered, even MORE issues that contradict each other, and I will still be wondering why so much importance was initially placed on aspects of the show that turned out to be unimportant and offered zero in terms of getting us to understand what's really going on with the island.



Well going by the title of the thread I think his point was that the writers seem to be bailing on the moral of the show. As for things being less important, I think proper emphasis was placed on everything. It is kind of ironic, or interesting at least, that the audience of the show is now kind of put off by the misrepresented importance that they themselves helped create. We pour over every little piece of info and every frame of the show, and blow an amazing amount of things WAY out of proportion. When those things turn out to be less important than we thought we get all bent out of shape about it. I maintain that things like the numbers had the proper amount of emphasis and destiny placed on them. They were always destined to be the numbers of each of the final 6 candidates. No matter what happened those were the final 6 candidates. The numbers appeared around our story as a forboding message about who would be left. The only piece of information left away from the numbers was which number belonged to each Lostie, and what the Final Task was. Have those answers before the story starts, and the Numbers take on a much more imposing feel.

Offline Sweet Old Lady

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2010, 05:22:25 PM »
I think the moral is that Love conquers all.  Even Sayid's love for Nadia overcame the Darkness that was inside him.  And Love made the Alt-timeliners remember the island and each other.  Yeah.  It's about Love.

Offline LostinLock

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Re: Is there a moral to this story (or are TPTB just bailing out)?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2010, 09:21:09 PM »


Jacob's mother said that man would covet what was underneath the island and it had to be protected.
So they are there to protect the island from man who would take it and exploit it.



For quite some time I have been saying the island is the main character and I still say it is and as they showed the light glowing it from beneath the surface I recalled Locke seeing the beauty in the island and after Jacob's brother comes out as the black smoke monster.

It reflects that there is good and bad in each person, we are flawed and we all want to be accepted in some degree.  It is human nature.

But again we all see things differently and I think if there is one thing I will walk away from this show is that how completely different we all see things from this show.

As for the numbers and the other small stuff I just don't really give a fig at this point because somewhere it worked and it worked because our interest was piqued and we asked questions, we discussed and our imaginations were tapped.  I think if you can walk away with that and let the small stuff from the show slide you might walk away happier.