Author Topic: Smokie behavior inconsistent? Or more smokie questions.  (Read 2709 times)

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Smokie behavior inconsistent? Or more smokie questions.
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2010, 03:03:08 PM »
I don't think Sawyer knew anything for certain about all this, but I think it was just a situation where its all he could think of. "Get the thing that looks like Locke into the water and while he's scrambling to get out we can push off and leave." Not with any idea that it would definately work, but just a situation of, "Let's try this"

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Smokie behavior inconsistent? Or more smokie questions.
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2010, 03:11:45 PM »
I've chosen to believe being wet doesn't matter, but Smokey can't 'travel' over water.  Dumped into the bay, he has to get his feet on solid ground before he can transform, giving Sawyer the time he needed to get the sub shoved off without him.  Lame, I know, but so was the idea that a 10 foot high sonic fence was keeping him out!

Offline Writers_Strike

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Re: Smokie behavior inconsistent? Or more smokie questions.
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2010, 07:24:06 PM »
Oh and about Smokey=MiB or not, right before he went into the light he reminded Jacob and us that Jacob couldn't kill him. Jacob told MiB and us that he wasn't going to kill him. If we go by Jack's logic that not touching the bomb would keep therm alive, then MiB being unconscious had no way to alter his fate. This would mean that either Jacob killed him or he became Smokey.

Saying the light killed him and not Jacob, is like saying Jacob threw him off a cliff and the ground killed him.

Offline jugdish

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Re: Smokie behavior inconsistent? Or more smokie questions.
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2010, 07:43:44 PM »
No need to apologize for taking over the thread. This is dead on what I wanted to discuss.

I believe MIB=smokie. It is the only thing that answers some of the questions. I think the light freed him from his body. it is still MIB, he doesn't need a body to travel any more.

My critism of Across the Sea can be show in this thread. Understanding this show should not be this hard at this point in the series. We should have a clearer understanding of the situation now. Imagine the people who just watch the show and never go online. They most be completely confused.

Offline WhatThe

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Re: Smokie behavior inconsistent? Or more smokie questions.
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2010, 08:12:14 PM »
My critism of Across the Sea can be show in this thread. Understanding this show should not be this hard at this point in the series. We should have a clearer understanding of the situation now. Imagine the people who just watch the show and never go online. They most be completely confused.

Totally agree there.

Offline laklost

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Re: Smokie behavior inconsistent? Or more smokie questions.
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2010, 10:21:23 PM »
I think what is going on is this.

The island has on it a ridiculously powerful source of life - which they showed us in this episode - the Well that the woman was guarding.

Who wants to guard this?  No one.  You have to give your life to it - guardian lady then Jacob and now his replacement which will be one of the candidates

Jacob "kills" his brother by throwing him into the well - "You want to go to the power source? To the power source you go!"

The island does the ultimate reset and vomits MIB out as Smokey - the darkness is the opposite of the light.

In the episode we saw that the reason why MIB and Jacob are at polar extremes is that Jacob was willing to guard the island (with all the Oedipal complications that went with that decision) but MIB wanted to exploit the power of the island (even though he wanted to do so for probably morally neutral reasons).  This faith vs. science argument has continued to be worked out through the Others (Jacob's followers) and their various enemies right down to their years spent fighting Dharma.  The Losties got downloaded right in the middle of the argument right when the key players (Jacob and MIB) were at the zenith of their power. 

In other words, Jacob made his biggest best ploy to bring candidates (crash of 815) and MIB made his greatest move to kill his unkillable brother.  He did this by overtaking the dead body of the island's greatest believer - John Locke.

Smokey's behavior is all about getting himself off the island. I personally will not be surprised to find out that Ben Linus has been working with him having made the great Faustian deal. 

Offline lostlady

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Re: Smokie behavior inconsistent? Or more smokie questions.
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2010, 10:30:56 PM »
I think what is going on is this.

The island has on it a ridiculously powerful source of life - which they showed us in this episode - the Well that the woman was guarding.

Who wants to guard this?  No one.  You have to give your life to it - guardian lady then Jacob and now his replacement which will be one of the candidates

Jacob "kills" his brother by throwing him into the well - "You want to go to the power source? To the power source you go!"

The island does the ultimate reset and vomits MIB out as Smokey - the darkness is the opposite of the light.

In the episode we saw that the reason why MIB and Jacob are at polar extremes is that Jacob was willing to guard the island (with all the Oedipal complications that went with that decision) but MIB wanted to exploit the power of the island (even though he wanted to do so for probably morally neutral reasons).  This faith vs. science argument has continued to be worked out through the Others (Jacob's followers) and their various enemies right down to their years spent fighting Dharma.  The Losties got downloaded right in the middle of the argument right when the key players (Jacob and MIB) were at the zenith of their power. 

In other words, Jacob made his biggest best ploy to bring candidates (crash of 815) and MIB made his greatest move to kill his unkillable brother.  He did this by overtaking the dead body of the island's greatest believer - John Locke.

Smokey's behavior is all about getting himself off the island. I personally will not be surprised to find out that Ben Linus has been working with him having made the great Faustian deal.  


THAT would be sooooo Ben! It would also explain why he was so invested in getting them back to the island with dead Locke

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Smokie behavior inconsistent? Or more smokie questions.
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2010, 11:37:30 PM »
I think what is going on is this.

The island has on it a ridiculously powerful source of life - which they showed us in this episode - the Well that the woman was guarding.

Who wants to guard this?  No one.  You have to give your life to it - guardian lady then Jacob and now his replacement which will be one of the candidates

Jacob "kills" his brother by throwing him into the well - "You want to go to the power source? To the power source you go!"

The island does the ultimate reset and vomits MIB out as Smokey - the darkness is the opposite of the light.

In the episode we saw that the reason why MIB and Jacob are at polar extremes is that Jacob was willing to guard the island (with all the Oedipal complications that went with that decision) but MIB wanted to exploit the power of the island (even though he wanted to do so for probably morally neutral reasons).  This faith vs. science argument has continued to be worked out through the Others (Jacob's followers) and their various enemies right down to their years spent fighting Dharma.  The Losties got downloaded right in the middle of the argument right when the key players (Jacob and MIB) were at the zenith of their power. 

In other words, Jacob made his biggest best ploy to bring candidates (crash of 815) and MIB made his greatest move to kill his unkillable brother.  He did this by overtaking the dead body of the island's greatest believer - John Locke.

Smokey's behavior is all about getting himself off the island. I personally will not be surprised to find out that Ben Linus has been working with him having made the great Faustian deal.  


THAT would be sooooo Ben! It would also explain why he was so invested in getting them back to the island with dead Locke

Agreed. I think that was all a preemptive way of getting Ben on his side. Don't be surprised if Ben is by MiB's side when it comes down to it.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: Smokie behavior inconsistent? Or more smokie questions.
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2010, 01:25:45 AM »
My critism of Across the Sea can be show in this thread. Understanding this show should not be this hard at this point in the series. We should have a clearer understanding of the situation now. Imagine the people who just watch the show and never go online. They most be completely confused.

I see what you are saying, but I actually think threads like this are exactly what TPTB intend. We've known from the beginning that they were aiming really high when they started making Lost. Very few shows have this style of story arcs that last over mulitple seasons. In doing that, they have also wanted to go over some pretty lofty themes. Also, they want to leave room for people to make their own conclusions. Thats exactly why there is no 100% good guy or 100% bad guy. The show is filled with shades of gray, which automatically creates debates.

Some of the debates are over major themes, some of them are over trivial matters, but thats because us fans tend to pick apart every morsel on the screen.

Offline opgelost

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Re: Smokie behavior inconsistent? Or more smokie questions.
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2010, 06:28:31 AM »
I think what is going on is this.

The island does the ultimate reset and vomits MIB out as Smokey - the darkness is the opposite of the light.

In the episode we saw that the reason why MIB and Jacob are at polar extremes is that Jacob was willing to guard the island (with all the Oedipal complications that went with that decision) but MIB wanted to exploit the power of the island (even though he wanted to do so for probably morally neutral reasons).  This faith vs. science argument has continued to be worked out through the Others (Jacob's followers) and their various enemies right down to their years spent fighting Dharma.  The Losties got downloaded right in the middle of the argument right when the key players (Jacob and MIB) were at the zenith of their power. 

It looks like they became opposites later, but why did mother dress them in black and white since they were young? Even the bracelets, Jacob's is white, his brother's is black.
To me it still looks like the brother wasn't expected and mother always knew that he was there to balance the scale, that he was science and would not just accept answers, that's why she loved him more, she knew he was doomed. She didn't want him to look for reasons, she hoped that he would not go looking for them if she told him that there was nothing across the sea, that the island was all there is, that they just came from her and she came from her mother, that people are always bad, but not them, they had a reason to live, a purpose.
She had no doubts about Jacob, the one who could not lie, the one that was always supposed to be the one, the one who would accept her answers and not question them or want a proof.

But Jacob is the one that leaves the island and observes the people, because he wants to know if mother is right. He doubts her words. And his brother is the one trapped on the island to protect it from people, that Jacob keeps bringing there to prove mother wrong.