Author Topic: What If....  (Read 3664 times)

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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What If....
« on: May 13, 2010, 11:05:38 AM »
Yeah I know thats a dirty tactic to get you to read a topic, but I couldn't think of anything else to name it.

Remember how we saw Walt with the Polar Bear Comic, and then a Polar Bear Showed up?* Remeber how Bernard believed Rose's Cancer would be cured and then it was? Remember when John was told the ONE thing he would want would show up in the Magic Box, and then his father was there? Remember when Eko Believed he would find Yemi's plane, then he did? Remember how Charlie was going through withdrawals and then that was answered with Yemi's plane as well? Remember how Ben believed that using the toilet thing would Summon the Smoke and then it attacked the Mercenaries, and then it did? There are others.

Sorry for the list of memories and I promise I have a point here. What if the way to make things come to be on the island is to believe they will. Now I know that's a little bit animated Disney style, but I think it holds at least a little bit of water. What got me thinking is the FDW construction mystery. MiB had this Grandious Idea that if he created and operated a contraption that channels the Light and Water that he would be able to leave the Island. Now THAT is the explanation given to us by a man that "Just Knows" this is going to work. Then he is attacked by his mom, dragged up a ladder and the hole is filled in without the contraption being completed. The next time we see the contraption it is buried in a wall and already put together it seems. Also the wheel does EXACTLY what MiB thought it would do before it was built. We are given no technical reason as to why that would work, it doesn't make ANY sense. They didn't explain it as anything that was so complex that we would just believe it (Wormholes in space time) for example. We are given "Channel Light and Water and out comes...A ONE WAY TICKET TO TUNISIA"  Now I know we may not get implicitly told this is how things work, but I am keeping this in mind as a possibility. Maybe it will help me resolve some things in my own mind. It also kind of explains the rules and stuff As to Why the rules are in place. What if just willing something makes it a reality. Like when Mother said "I've made it so you can never hurt each other." Now I know that didn't stop Jacob from beating MiB's face in, but it does stop them from Killing each other.


*Also just a disclaimer. I KNOW Dharma was doing work on Polar Bears so that one can be explained reasonably. I just remember how we all first felt before we knew about Dharma. ALot of the talk was that Walt Manifested that. Maybe that's his power. He can use that Manifestation power off the island.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 11:38:01 AM by I_Am_Jacob »

Offline BobBX542

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Re: What If....
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2010, 12:05:46 PM »
Remember how we saw Walt with the Polar Bear Comic, and then a Polar Bear Showed up? Remeber how Bernard believed Rose's Cancer would be cured and then it was? Remember when John was told the ONE thing he would want would show up in the Magic Box, and then his father was there? Remember when Eko Believed he would find Yemi's plane, then he did? Remember how Charlie was going through withdrawals and then that was answered with Yemi's plane as well? Remember how Ben believed that using the toilet thing would Summon the Smoke and then it attacked the Mercenaries, and then it did? There are others.

I don't think these are issues of belief or faith. I mean, like you said the D.I. was doing the experiments on the polar bears, so that explains that.

Bernard believed that Rose's cancer would be cured if they went to the faith healer in Australia, and it wasn't, but he believed her that it was when she said he healed her, and then when they went to the island, the cancer was gone because that's what the isalnd does.

The Locke issue I think is being over, uh, thunk?? Even Ben said that he was just using the box thing as a metaphor.

Eko finding Yemi's plane, you got me there. Mainly because I don't remember when Eko thought he was going to find Yemi's plane. I remember the episode when him and Charlie did actually find it, but the moment you're talking about eludes my memory. You're not saying that Eko left Nigeria to look for Yemi are you??

And Charlie's withdraw being answered by Yemi's plane?? Are you saying Charlie started using again??

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: What If....
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2010, 12:35:50 PM »


Bernard believed that Rose's cancer would be cured if they went to the faith healer in Australia, and it wasn't, but he believed her that it was when she said he healed her, and then when they went to the island, the cancer was gone because that's what the isalnd does.

The Locke issue I think is being over, uh, thunk?? Even Ben said that he was just using the box thing as a metaphor.

Eko finding Yemi's plane, you got me there. Mainly because I don't remember when Eko thought he was going to find Yemi's plane. I remember the episode when him and Charlie did actually find it, but the moment you're talking about eludes my memory. You're not saying that Eko left Nigeria to look for Yemi are you??

And Charlie's withdraw being answered by Yemi's plane?? Are you saying Charlie started using again??

I Know that the box was being used as a metaphor, but itdoesn't explain how Anthony Cooper got there in the first place.

I don't think that Eko was Consciously thinking that Yemi's plane would be on the Island, but I think there is a chance that it is something that he wanted so badly that it manifested and came to be. I am not saying that Charlie started using again, but I think at times through withdrawal all the subject wants is whatever drug they are missing. In those most vulnerable moments it was most likely the thing he wanted most, and then there it was in the plane. I know in the end he was strong enough to withstand the temptation.

I know this is kind of far fetched, but I think it helps with some of the "That's just what the Island does" answers we have. Maybe this is the vehicle by which the Island does those things.

The more I write about this theory the more hoaky it sounds, and yet the more it makes sense as the way the Writers MAY try and tie everything up. Just tell us that this is how things work on the Island and let us look for inconsistancies as we would with whatever answer they give us.

Offline louisianagirl76l

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Re: What If....
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2010, 12:39:52 PM »
When Jack believed him and Richard wouldn't explode inside the Black Rock? When he believed the bomb wouldn't go off in the sub? Or is that something to do with the whole "Un-Locke" can't kill us thing?

Offline nomteticus

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Re: What If....
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2010, 12:43:07 PM »
More:
Claire getting her peanut butter after a package literally falls from the sky (the anthropological "cargo myth", I won't go into details)
Locke wanting to find out what's next by getting stoned in the hut and actually getting his answer.
Boone watching his sister diein that drug-induced dream.
Desmond secretly wishing Charlie to die (?) and actually getting his wish fullfiled.
Jack wanting to get the people off the island and the Freighter appears.

Yeah, the donkey wheel would make sense, but why not simply snap his fingers and leave if he could choose his method?

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: What If....
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2010, 12:50:32 PM »
I don't think KNEW this mothod at the time. He knew about the light, and maybe had the idea planted that maybe that would lead to a way off the island. Then that idea grew as his people started to learn more about the Electromagnetism. Maybe then he thought up the contraption idea. Alot of Maybe's I know, but I think this idea has some legs.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: What If....
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2010, 12:51:36 PM »
IAJ, we're usually in agreement, but I can't go along with you on this one, sorry.

Then again, there are an unusual amount of 'wishing wells' on the island......... ;)

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: What If....
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2010, 12:55:15 PM »
IAJ, we're usually in agreement, but I can't go along with you on this one, sorry.

Then again, there are an unusual amount of 'wishing wells' on the island......... ;)

HAHA, Yeah this one came to me just as I watched the EP again last night, and it just struck me as something TPTB may do to kind of answer alot of the little mysteries without actually answering any of them.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: What If....
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2010, 01:08:54 PM »


Bernard believed that Rose's cancer would be cured if they went to the faith healer in Australia, and it wasn't, but he believed her that it was when she said he healed her, and then when they went to the island, the cancer was gone because that's what the isalnd does.

The Locke issue I think is being over, uh, thunk?? Even Ben said that he was just using the box thing as a metaphor.

Eko finding Yemi's plane, you got me there. Mainly because I don't remember when Eko thought he was going to find Yemi's plane. I remember the episode when him and Charlie did actually find it, but the moment you're talking about eludes my memory. You're not saying that Eko left Nigeria to look for Yemi are you??

And Charlie's withdraw being answered by Yemi's plane?? Are you saying Charlie started using again??

I Know that the box was being used as a metaphor, but itdoesn't explain how Anthony Cooper got there in the first place.

I don't think that Eko was Consciously thinking that Yemi's plane would be on the Island, but I think there is a chance that it is something that he wanted so badly that it manifested and came to be. I am not saying that Charlie started using again, but I think at times through withdrawal all the subject wants is whatever drug they are missing. In those most vulnerable moments it was most likely the thing he wanted most, and then there it was in the plane. I know in the end he was strong enough to withstand the temptation.

I know this is kind of far fetched, but I think it helps with some of the "That's just what the Island does" answers we have. Maybe this is the vehicle by which the Island does those things.

The more I write about this theory the more hoaky it sounds, and yet the more it makes sense as the way the Writers MAY try and tie everything up. Just tell us that this is how things work on the Island and let us look for inconsistancies as we would with whatever answer they give us.

I think Cooper getting to the island was sort answered when it was revealed that Ben had his network of off-island others. Ben knew that he would be able to seriously screw with Locke by bringing his father to the island, so he made it happen. When Cooper got into the ambulance (Amber lamps), one (or more) of Ben's goons drugged him, and then brought him there.

As for the Charlie and Eko things, I think that you might be over shooting the idea of manifestation through belief. Yemi's plane was on the island way before Eko ever got there, so even if he didn't want to find it, it would still be there. Now I'm trying to stir you up here, so I mean, if that's what you want to believe, then I'm not going to say it's wrong, but I don't think you should ignore the obvious answers.

More:
Claire getting her peanut butter after a package literally falls from the sky (the anthropological "cargo myth", I won't go into details)
If a pallet, or even just a single jar of peanut butter arrived, then I could along with that thought

Locke wanting to find out what's next by getting stoned in the hut and actually getting his answer.
Possible, but the sweat lodge thing is something that people have been doing for a long time to get answers, and the answer Locke got was abut as cryptic as most answers received during a drug binge

Boone watching his sister diein that drug-induced dream.
Once again, this is possible.

Desmond secretly wishing Charlie to die (?) and actually getting his wish fullfiled.
This one I think is far off. There is a big difference between accepting that no matter what you do, you can't change something, and wanting it to happen.

Jack wanting to get the people off the island and the Freighter appears.
I don't think this applies either, because the frieghter didn't really have any intention of getting them off the island, and when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it, the frieghter didn't get them off. BUT, but, but, the chopper did get them out to sea where Penny found them, so I guess it's possible to assume this, but then we have to take the journey of 20 steps on everything, and say that because one person wanted it, somewhere down the line, it happened.

Yeah, the donkey wheel would make sense, but why not simply snap his fingers and leave if he could choose his method?
Good point. Apparently he "just knows" how things work, so wouldn't the simple act of thinking about putting the wheel there be enough??

Basically IAJ, I do think that there might be something to what you're saying, but there are plenty of reasonable answers to be had regarding some of these issues.

Offline jinfan

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Re: What If....
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2010, 01:13:31 PM »
I think Jacob actually said to Hurly "tell him(Dogan) you can do whatever you WANT, because you are a canidate"

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: What If....
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2010, 01:22:38 PM »


Bernard believed that Rose's cancer would be cured if they went to the faith healer in Australia, and it wasn't, but he believed her that it was when she said he healed her, and then when they went to the island, the cancer was gone because that's what the isalnd does.

The Locke issue I think is being over, uh, thunk?? Even Ben said that he was just using the box thing as a metaphor.

Eko finding Yemi's plane, you got me there. Mainly because I don't remember when Eko thought he was going to find Yemi's plane. I remember the episode when him and Charlie did actually find it, but the moment you're talking about eludes my memory. You're not saying that Eko left Nigeria to look for Yemi are you??

And Charlie's withdraw being answered by Yemi's plane?? Are you saying Charlie started using again??

I Know that the box was being used as a metaphor, but itdoesn't explain how Anthony Cooper got there in the first place.

I don't think that Eko was Consciously thinking that Yemi's plane would be on the Island, but I think there is a chance that it is something that he wanted so badly that it manifested and came to be. I am not saying that Charlie started using again, but I think at times through withdrawal all the subject wants is whatever drug they are missing. In those most vulnerable moments it was most likely the thing he wanted most, and then there it was in the plane. I know in the end he was strong enough to withstand the temptation.

I know this is kind of far fetched, but I think it helps with some of the "That's just what the Island does" answers we have. Maybe this is the vehicle by which the Island does those things.

The more I write about this theory the more hoaky it sounds, and yet the more it makes sense as the way the Writers MAY try and tie everything up. Just tell us that this is how things work on the Island and let us look for inconsistancies as we would with whatever answer they give us.

I think Cooper getting to the island was sort answered when it was revealed that Ben had his network of off-island others. Ben knew that he would be able to seriously screw with Locke by bringing his father to the island, so he made it happen. When Cooper got into the ambulance (Amber lamps), one (or more) of Ben's goons drugged him, and then brought him there.

As for the Charlie and Eko things, I think that you might be over shooting the idea of manifestation through belief. Yemi's plane was on the island way before Eko ever got there, so even if he didn't want to find it, it would still be there. Now I'm trying to stir you up here, so I mean, if that's what you want to believe, then I'm not going to say it's wrong, but I don't think you should ignore the obvious answers.

More:
Claire getting her peanut butter after a package literally falls from the sky (the anthropological "cargo myth", I won't go into details)
If a pallet, or even just a single jar of peanut butter arrived, then I could along with that thought

Locke wanting to find out what's next by getting stoned in the hut and actually getting his answer.
Possible, but the sweat lodge thing is something that people have been doing for a long time to get answers, and the answer Locke got was abut as cryptic as most answers received during a drug binge

Boone watching his sister diein that drug-induced dream.
Once again, this is possible.

Desmond secretly wishing Charlie to die (?) and actually getting his wish fullfiled.
This one I think is far off. There is a big difference between accepting that no matter what you do, you can't change something, and wanting it to happen.

Jack wanting to get the people off the island and the Freighter appears.
I don't think this applies either, because the frieghter didn't really have any intention of getting them off the island, and when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it, the frieghter didn't get them off. BUT, but, but, the chopper did get them out to sea where Penny found them, so I guess it's possible to assume this, but then we have to take the journey of 20 steps on everything, and say that because one person wanted it, somewhere down the line, it happened.

Yeah, the donkey wheel would make sense, but why not simply snap his fingers and leave if he could choose his method?
Good point. Apparently he "just knows" how things work, so wouldn't the simple act of thinking about putting the wheel there be enough??

Basically IAJ, I do think that there might be something to what you're saying, but there are plenty of reasonable answers to be had regarding some of these issues.

Yeah I know there are answers to the questions there, but the simple question of WHY is kind of huddled behind the scenes. Most of my ideas start out all strong at first and then fizzle out after inspection. This may end up being one of those cases. I still like it for now as the underlying fabric of the island, but will be quick to abandon ship if itlooks like its not gong to turn out to be correct.

Offline lostlady

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Re: What If....
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2010, 03:10:53 PM »
I read somewhere else about this theory so you may not be too far off. Jacob's brother 'knew' a lot of things. He just 'knew' how to play senet for example.The post had many of your examples plus the fact that Locke wanted to be a provider and suddenly was a great boar hunter.

I don't know but perhaps we will find out along with the other 16 hours of questions still unanswered!  ;)

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: What If....
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2010, 03:18:25 PM »
I think it is a cool theory IAJ, but...I don't know. Like you said, maybe it's a little too Disney, or Wizard of Ozy. I don't want to sound like I'm just being dismissive or trite, but I like to chalk up all those things to 1 word which has been fundamental throughout the show...Destiny.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: What If....
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2010, 04:29:57 PM »
I read somewhere else about this theory so you may not be too far off. Jacob's brother 'knew' a lot of things. He just 'knew' how to play senet for example.The post had many of your examples plus the fact that Locke wanted to be a provider and suddenly was a great boar hunter.

I don't know but perhaps we will find out along with the other 16 hours of questions still unanswered!  ;)

Do you remember where you read it? Because I would like to read more on it. Like I said it is still kind of an infant idea with me and I haven't really put alot of effort into it.

Offline nomteticus

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Re: What If....
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2010, 08:07:05 PM »
To I_AM_JACOB
I think the guys that do the ODI podcast (Vozzek, Karen and that other guy) are constantly producing these types of theories. They tend post their podcast late (monday or tuesday), but it's (IMO) the best fan podcast, even if they overanalyze everything.

edit: This theory is also in Vozzek's recap: http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/05/things-i-noticed-across-sea-by-vozzek69.html
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 08:30:29 PM by nomteticus »