MIB's the GOOD GUY now...

[BobBX542]

Think about this for a moment: Ben killed the current island protector--Jacob--with that daggar. Jacob's brother killed the island protector at the time (his fake mom) with the same daggar. I don't think Ben was a candidate (or still a candidate) at the time he killed Jacob, so perhaps the human "MiB" was not a candidate at the time Jacob threw him into the cave...which would mean he COULD be killed by Jacob now that his "candidate" status was no longer in effect.

I don't know if this will change your thought or not, but Ben did not kill Jacob with the special dagger, Dogen had that at the temple. Locke gave Ben a regular hunting knife as they were walking into the temple or sometime around then, and Ben stabbed him with that.

[james_sawyer]

feel sad for  mib ..dude was just trying to get off the island  ..but no they had to throw him into the cave turn him into a smokie .. now jacob is paying for creating the smokie in the first place

[sobrien]

so are we to assume that the NEED to KEEP mib from ever leaving the island occured AFTER he became smokey.... (which i give more acceptance to) than it seeming as thou from the day they were born both were slated to live out LONG lives on the island until another protector/candidate was found/born unto them...

Jacob is stuck on the island because he took the deal from his "mom" and became "the light's" protector.  He was t keep people from it.  I think MIB COULD have left, but because he was a threat to the "light" mom stopped him.  Now that MIB is Smokey, is is "part of the light" (he was transformed by it so is part of it).  That means Jacob MUST now keep smokie on the island with the light as part of his mission.  The threat of letting MIB get to man is the same threat as letting man to the light - disbursement of knowledge.

It is all about knowledge versus innocence.  Jacob is innocence and MIB was knowledge.  Light is often a metaphor for knowledge, and in the most pure telling of the Garden of Eden Bible story, the thing God didn't want man to have was fruit from the tree of knowledge.

[I_Am_Jacob]

so are we to assume that the NEED to KEEP mib from ever leaving the island occured AFTER he became smokey.... (which i give more acceptance to) than it seeming as thou from the day they were born both were slated to live out LONG lives on the island until another protector/candidate was found/born unto them...

Jacob is stuck on the island because he took the deal from his "mom" and became "the light's" protector.  He was t keep people from it.  I think MIB COULD have left, but because he was a threat to the "light" mom stopped him.  Now that MIB is Smokey, is is "part of the light" (he was transformed by it so is part of it).  That means Jacob MUST now keep smokie on the island with the light as part of his mission.  The threat of letting MIB get to man is the same threat as letting man to the light - disbursement of knowledge.

It is all about knowledge versus innocence.  Jacob is innocence and MIB was knowledge.  Light is often a metaphor for knowledge, and in the most pure telling of the Garden of Eden Bible story, the thing God didn't want man to have was fruit from the tree of knowledge.

I like this reasoning here. I think initially the protector was protecting the island from the outside, and now he is protecting the outside from what HE created on the island.

[I_Am_Jacob]

And NO! MiB is not the good guy now. I don't trust any column of smoke no matter what color. Especially if it slams people into solid objects until they are dead. And as someone else succinctly put it, I don't think he's going to be showing up at DisneyLand with a pair of Goofy Ears on.

[sobrien]

And NO! MiB is not the good guy now. I don't trust any column of smoke no matter what color. Especially if it slams people into solid objects until they are dead. And as someone else succinctly put it, I don't think he's going to be showing up at DisneyLand with a pair of Goofy Ears on.

"Good guy" might be a stretch for MIB.  In fact, that would also now be a stretch for Jacob.  Instead I would use the term sympathetic to describe both of them: flawed, but sympathetic.

[I_Am_Jacob]

Them as people absloutely. However what they have grown into represents exactly what the show is all about they started out as twins and now they find themselves at the opposite ends of good and evil because of the choices they made along the way.

[ozman776]

So to clarify.... MIB isnt smokey at all becasue weve been led to believe that smokey is the "islands" security system??? which means its trying to protect the island... but MIB doesnt care about the island and only wants OFF... so if smokey is EVIl which ill agree with, then MIB is in fact not SMOKEY.... so to say MIB IS EVIL is incorrect, and i think a whole lot off (_>_) kissing needs to be started from all the people who got high and mighty claiming they have the final proof that MIB IS BAD end of story...

Assume the position folks and maybe wait till the end of the 2 minute warning before spouting of PROOF!

[I_Am_Jacob]

So to clarify.... MIB isnt smokey at all becasue weve been led to believe that smokey is the "islands" security system??? which means its trying to protect the island... but MIB doesnt care about the island and only wants OFF... so if smokey is EVIl which ill agree with, then MIB is in fact not SMOKEY.... so to say MIB IS EVIL is incorrect, and i think a whole lot off (_>_) kissing needs to be started from all the people who got high and mighty claiming they have the final proof that MIB IS BAD end of story...

Assume the position folks and maybe wait till the end of the 2 minute warning before spouting of PROOF!

This post doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Have you been watching the show at all? Still thinking Smokey is a "Security System". Yeah that ship sailed a while ago. Nah, I don't think there will be any position assuming. especially on the oders of someone who seems to think in such backwards logic. Smokey (IMHO) is everything Evil that was inside MiB manifested into physical form. So Yes MiB is Smokey (Now) and Yes, you are once again Wrong.

[ozman776]

So you believe that SMOKEY is MIB and that they combined are EVIL.... sorry ya wrong.... WE see someone who wants OFF the island go INTO a hole and what comes out isnt him anymore.... he/smokey takes OVER a body so he can communicate in human form, but he can only take over a DEAD person whos goals/wants/needs are snuffed out when they die... do u believe that YEMMI was really yemi??? or that CHRISTIAN was really christian.... NO... they were a human form USED by smokey... so MIBS story ended many many years ago and smokeys who we are dealing with now... and to add further "proof" locke never wanted to leave the island, he was convinced to turn the donkey wheel, otherwise he'd be still running around the jungle playing with his new legs that work... so dont twist this for your satiusfaction... you started the MIB IS EVIL train... enjoy your ride..

[BobBX542]

IAJ-just making friends all over aren't you?? LOL Opie, Oz, who's next?? I'm on your side for the most part man. You just need to turn it down a notch.

[ozman776]

weve never seen smokey as anything but BAD... most people have been defending MIB as tormented and jailed and PUSHED into actions that if left alone would never have occured.... try seeing what people are posting before you take the mightier than thou approach of talking DOWN to people... and yes ive watched the show.... from day 1 of the losties plane crash the smoke monster was portrayed as a security system.. not something that wants to LEAVE...

[Maxor127]

Eh, I think MIB is Smokey.  I can live with him really just being a pillar of smoke that simply took the form of MIB, but given that Smokey's motivations seem completely inline with MIB and his experiences in this episode, I'm going with MIB was turned into the smoke monster.

As for who is good and evil, I still don't see Jacob as good.  Good and evil are a matter of perspective, and I agree MIB is sympathetic.  Some might see him as a murderer, and others might see him as doing what needs to be done to escape his unjust imprisonment.

[ozman776]

im deducing that smoke monsters appearances as OTHER people who didnt go down the hole is what makes him a chameleon and no exclusively MIB... if it was a portion of MIB and his deep seeded wants and desires then why have him play other parts ((christian,yemmi etc))
either TPTB are cluelessly attaching smokey to others and confusing us to his true intention of being an island protector, or they screwed it all up by having him take over lockes body and rant on about wanting to leave which is what MIB has always wanted...
either way..smokeys intentions (which i agree are EVIL) are not the same as MIBS!!

[I_Am_Jacob]

So you believe that SMOKEY is MIB and that they combined are EVIL.... sorry ya wrong.... WE see someone who wants OFF the island go INTO a hole and what comes out isnt him anymore.... he/smokey takes OVER a body so he can communicate in human form, but he can only take over a DEAD person whos goals/wants/needs are snuffed out when they die... do u believe that YEMMI was really yemi??? or that CHRISTIAN was really christian.... NO... they were a human form USED by smokey... so MIBS story ended many many years ago and smokeys who we are dealing with now... and to add further "proof" locke never wanted to leave the island, he was convinced to turn the donkey wheel, otherwise he'd be still running around the jungle playing with his new legs that work... so dont twist this for your satiusfaction... you started the MIB IS EVIL train... enjoy your ride..

The one we had always referred to as "MiB" was, until this episode, a shortened way of saying, "The cloumn of black smoke that wants to kill all of our Losties." THAT is evil, I think we both agree on this. You are arguing on semantics and I won't do that because it gets nowhere. I will agree that MiB started his life as a troubled person who just wanted to leave, but now that he went down into the light that part of him that was "Just wanting to leave." is gone now. Its like Jack told Locke about Anthony Cooper. The Smoke that was released is the being we had always been referring to as MiB. I will continue to referto it as such with the understanding that at one time he was just a person with the same troubles as anyone else.

IAJ-just making friends all over aren't you?? LOL Opie, Oz, who's next?? I'm on your side for the most part man. You just need to turn it down a notch.

Yeah and I didn't even seek this one out. I just took a bot of offense to the tone in his posts (Yet again) so here goes. Anyone telling me to "Assume the position" needs to check themselves. Especially when they aren't making any sense or reading what I am responding with. Oh well, its going to be a long week.