Author Topic: Anyone else starting to get nervous  (Read 13299 times)

Offline lovinlost

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2010, 12:30:29 PM »
I'll just point out something you probably all noticed watching the show... Jacob's "Mom" summed up the entire LOST experience very aptly when she said (to Jacob's real mom), in effect, "Answering any question you could possibly ask will only raise more questions.  You should rest."  I think the writers were summing up the show in that one line.

I got the very same impression when I saw that clip on abc.com's sneak peeks.  It was like the were speaking directly to us, warning us that we are NOT going to get all the answers.  AND, they actually said this IRL. :)

Offline MachThree

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2010, 12:37:34 PM »
I'll just point out something you probably all noticed watching the show... Jacob's "Mom" summed up the entire LOST experience very aptly when she said (to Jacob's real mom), in effect, "Answering any question you could possibly ask will only raise more questions.  You should rest."  I think the writers were summing up the show in that one line.
I think you are right, that's exactly what Darlton is saying - and it sucks.  Its also horribly unfair of them.

Basically, they are saying "Don't ask too many questions", when the first several years of the show were designed, by them,  precisely to get us all to ask tons and tons of questions in anticipation that they'd be answered.  Bait and switch.  Its unbelievably two-faced of them, but worse than that, its like not only did they sucker us, but now they are arrogantly talking down to us after having suckered us.  The quote to me reads more like they're saying to us "Answering any question you could possibly ask will only raise more questions.  You should rest, you foolish idiots!"  

Hell, they did it in a podcast/interview a week or two ago when one of them said something like "When a child starts asking you questions, it only begets more questions from the child.  Eventually, you say 'Oh, look!  A Chuck E. Cheese!'"

Tell us not to ask to many questions at the beginning of the show, not at the end.  Don't treat us like we're morons because we reacted to the show exactly how you wanted us to react.      

« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 12:39:52 PM by MachThree »

Offline CastawayCayley

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2010, 12:55:51 PM »
I agree with Juggy and SOL. My guess is that they are just making it up as they go along and when it came down to figuring out who were Adam and Eve they couldn't have it be Rose and Bernard, Jack and Kate, or anyone else we know because most of us had guessed them long ago. They pulled this story out of their butts so they could feel original.

Here's where I disagree with this idea. The Stones they found there. I can't think of a single story arc that gives us Rose and Bernard lying in the cave with the stones holding significance. Jack and Kate I see a little better, but that story arc would make one of them the dark stone and that would have changed the whole story. The only way they could prove anything completely to 90% of the fans would be to show a NEW scene starring young Walt at this late a stage.

They made this story up. If they wanted it to be Rose and Bernard they would have written an episode where they had those stones and it would make as much sense as anything else.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2010, 01:01:36 PM »
Right but they showed the stones in one of the very first episodes BEFORE the skeletons. The Stones had significance before the skeletons did, they were not just an afterthought. By making the Skeletons Rose and Bernard would have devalued the significance of the Light and Dark symbolism which is being further played out in Jacob and MiB. Just having Rose and Bernard find the stones and hold them for whatever significance they found in them. Sorry, but if they just turned out to be two side players from the series I would have been greatly disappointed.

Offline Sweet Old Lady

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2010, 01:29:09 PM »
The stones were in Desmond's possession in one of his flashbacks where he was painting Penny's apartment.  It could have been Des and Penny.  I don't remember seeing the stones before the skeletons were found.  I remember seeing the black and white badkgammon pieces, but those weren't the same stones. 

Offline Geronimo Jackson

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2010, 01:33:33 PM »
Wow, people all sorts of fired up. Well, I personally thought that whoever that woman was did a terrible job acting like, anything. As for everyone else in the show, they were fine. I'm actually kind of interested in what all the people who want to know more about Dharma are looking for?? I mean, I thought everything we have been told kind of did a really good job at just wrapping them up. They were scientists that came to the island to study the strange effects of the island, they got in over their heads with the natives, and it all fell apart. I mean, aside from finding out how they even knew about the island in the first place, I don't see what else there is to be curious about regarding Dharma.
The woman was played by Tony and Emmy winner several times Allison Janney who was a major cast member on The West Wing and of late has beee\n added to In Plain Sight. She did what she could with the role she was given.

Offline Geronimo Jackson

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2010, 01:36:25 PM »
Once Ben appeared and was to only scheduled to be in 3 episodes, then became a major part of the story I knew then they were making it up as they went along. Their deal with Disney to spread it out for a few more years but only 16 epsiodes was another giant sign they had no ideawhere to go. The Sideways episodes were padding.  We have been suckered.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2010, 01:38:10 PM »
Wow, people all sorts of fired up. Well, I personally thought that whoever that woman was did a terrible job acting like, anything. As for everyone else in the show, they were fine. I'm actually kind of interested in what all the people who want to know more about Dharma are looking for?? I mean, I thought everything we have been told kind of did a really good job at just wrapping them up. They were scientists that came to the island to study the strange effects of the island, they got in over their heads with the natives, and it all fell apart. I mean, aside from finding out how they even knew about the island in the first place, I don't see what else there is to be curious about regarding Dharma.
The woman was played by Tony and Emmy winner several times Allison Janney who was a major cast member on The West Wing and of late has beee\n added to In Plain Sight. She did what she could with the role she was given.

And?? If that was the best she could do with the role, then her best is awful.

Offline MachThree

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2010, 01:40:15 PM »
Once Ben appeared and was to only scheduled to be in 3 episodes, then became a major part of the story I knew then they were making it up as they went along. Their deal with Disney to spread it out for a few more years but only 16 epsiodes was another giant sign they had no ideawhere to go. The Sideways episodes were padding.  We have been suckered.
I'm not so sure about that.  Darlton has said (and I don't think its inconsistent with anything else we know) that there was going to be a leader of the others introduced eventually, and they thought it could be "Henry Gale" if the character worked.  When Emerson turned out to be so great, they decided it'd be him. 

Offline zeekloveslost

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2010, 01:56:27 PM »
The bad feelings about what the writers did to the audience makes me wonder: Will you completely rule out another series done by these creatives?  Will you look at their upcoming offerings and say "They're just going to jerk us around. I'd rather not get invested."? 

Offline CastawayCayley

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2010, 01:56:45 PM »
Right but they showed the stones in one of the very first episodes BEFORE the skeletons. The Stones had significance before the skeletons did, they were not just an afterthought. By making the Skeletons Rose and Bernard would have devalued the significance of the Light and Dark symbolism which is being further played out in Jacob and MiB. Just having Rose and Bernard find the stones and hold them for whatever significance they found in them. Sorry, but if they just turned out to be two side players from the series I would have been greatly disappointed.

For the record I'm not saying I think it should have been Rose and Bernard, I use them as an example of someone the fans were guessing at. But as an aside I'm sure as heck waaaay more invested in those characters than I am with Crazy Allison Janney....

Remember back in Seasons 2 and 3 when the plot lines were going in a thousand different directions, new cast members were being added willy nilly and we got bunches of story arcs? It was insane. Then they finally announced that they were going to have a finite number of episodes and end it on a specific date. Once they decided that the episodes tightened up, plot lines disappeared and one major story arc began to be developed more strongly. That tells me that because they had no idea in the early days how long the show would go on for,  they were trying to give themselves wiggle room. If the series went for 10 seasons they couldn't answer all the questions early, and they also couldn't keep people interested in one mystery for 10 years. So they introduced multiple mysteries.

They could have sent this story any way they wanted to at that turning point. When they started dabbling in time travel people started hypothesizing that the skeletons were Losties. ESPECIALLY since Jack said "40-50 years old." That's a lot closer to the 30 yrs back they time traveled than the 2,000* yrs ago Mother and Brother were placed there.

We're talking about 2 skeletons, a black stone and a white stone in a cave. That is so vague. The battle between good and evil is the most used story line ever. Black and white signifying good and evil is a given. If you gave 100 novelists this premise you would get 100 different stories from that. They purposely gave themselves something they could easily adapt to any ideas they would have down the line.

The black and white stones we saw before the skeletons were backgammon pieces (if I am following you on that). Again, Black and White are basic ideas: Symbology 101. Could have gone in a gazillion directions with that.

Finally, my tell tale clue that they didn't necessarily plan on going with the 2,000 yr old crazy mama story from the get go? Jack and the 40-50 yrs old assessment yet again. Why not have him say, "There's no way to tell" when asked how long they had been there if they already knew it would be two millennia. They wrote themselves into the corner the same way they did when they had dynamite on a ship older than dynamite.

Basically, all I'm saying is that I personally don't believe that they knew the end that we are seeing now was exactly as they envisioned it six yrs ago. If it is, and I don't know how they could prove it with out a sealed envelope dated in 2004 containing this script, then I feel they handled it awkwardly.




*I mentioned elsewhere that I was listening to Jorge Garcia's podcast. His script said specifically that 2,000 yrs had passed. Until TPTB say otherwise, I'm going with that.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2010, 02:24:15 PM »
The critics here seem to be squabbling about details. Nothing more. People are saying we arn't getting enough explaination, I keep thinking back to the Star Wars prequels where they talked about stupid midichlorians being the science behind the Force. It really took the whole magic away from the essence of the Force. It is a perfect example of how over explaining the details actually makes the story worse.

For example, if 'Mother' would have said "The cave is filled with this mineral called unobtainium which has such and such scientific properties." Would that make the story better or worse? It's like the Pulp Fiction brief case. Not saying exactly what it is puts it into the relm of our own imaginations which are infinitely more vast.

Also, anybody that is saying "the acting was bad" really needs to explain why you say that. What was bad about it? Because it really just sounds like sour grapes to me. For example, the scene with Mother and MIB in the well was a beautifully acted scene with really intense emotion, but not over the top. There was alot more going on than what was being said in the lines. You knew that 'Mother' was going to do something she didn't want to, but had to do, even though it would break her heart. That was done without a word. Not just good acting, but great acting.

Finally, the Adam & Eve reveal....if that disappointed you that much, well it sucks to be you. I'm glad it wasn't something easily predictable. When has LOST ever been predictable? Also, I don't think they are "making it up as they go". Obviously, they didn't have every detail worked out years ago, but the major plot movements have clearly been worked out....case in point, The Bad Twin.

Offline MachThree

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2010, 02:27:24 PM »
The critics here seem to be squabbling about details. Nothing more. People are saying we arn't getting enough explaination, I keep thinking back to the Star Wars prequels where they talked about stupid midichlorians being the science behind the Force. It really took the whole magic away from the essence of the Force. It is a perfect example of how over explaining the details actually makes the story worse.
ements have clearly been worked out....case in point, The Bad Twin.

Yes, Starwars prequel is an example of overexplaining the details ruining the story.

Here, we are seeing the exact opposite.  Underexplaining the details is ruining the story.  I'd rather have no explanation than a poor, ambiguous one.  Maybe that's just me, I understand if other people feel differently.

Offline opgelost

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2010, 03:37:40 PM »
MiB said it, but yeah, exactly. IT seems that no one gets there with out Jacob allowing it. As for why he let the army and what have you on the island, ummmm, maybe he got bored and wanted to watch an action movie or something. LOL

The army brought Jughead and Jughead did something. Even if I still don't know what.

Offline BobBX542

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Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2010, 03:40:26 PM »
The critics here seem to be squabbling about details. Nothing more. People are saying we arn't getting enough explaination, I keep thinking back to the Star Wars prequels where they talked about stupid midichlorians being the science behind the Force. It really took the whole magic away from the essence of the Force. It is a perfect example of how over explaining the details actually makes the story worse.

For example, if 'Mother' would have said "The cave is filled with this mineral called unobtainium which has such and such scientific properties." Would that make the story better or worse? It's like the Pulp Fiction brief case. Not saying exactly what it is puts it into the relm of our own imaginations which are infinitely more vast.

Also, anybody that is saying "the acting was bad" really needs to explain why you say that. What was bad about it? Because it really just sounds like sour grapes to me. For example, the scene with Mother and MIB in the well was a beautifully acted scene with really intense emotion, but not over the top. There was alot more going on than what was being said in the lines. You knew that 'Mother' was going to do something she didn't want to, but had to do, even though it would break her heart. That was done without a word. Not just good acting, but great acting.

Finally, the Adam & Eve reveal....if that disappointed you that much, well it sucks to be you. I'm glad it wasn't something easily predictable. When has LOST ever been predictable? Also, I don't think they are "making it up as they go". Obviously, they didn't have every detail worked out years ago, but the major plot movements have clearly been worked out....case in point, The Bad Twin.

First off left me say this, I'm not trying to stir an arguement, I just like the conversation. I think we have had the Star Wars/mitocrapian discussion before, and I'll say the same thing I've been saying about that for years. It's not that they over explained what The Force was, it was how they decided to over explain it. Just saying The Force is a magic felt through out the universe that runs through all living things is an AWESOME explanation. Now if Lucas would have told the back story about how some being with magic powers had turned into nothing but pure energy and was scattered through out the universe and shared the wisdom of the unknown with everything, that is over explaining it, but it's still awesome. Little microscopic creatures that live in your bloodstream or whatever (I on purpose forgot, because of how bad it was) is an overexplanation that blows donkeys.

I think knowing exactly what was in the cave could have helped the narrative a little more. I mean, when she says that it's warm, and life, and death, and bright, and it's inside all people, what is that?? Look at how much controversy it is bringing up with us. LOL I kind of want the answers just so we can have something definitive, and not have to start every sentence with "I am just guessing here", or "I assume". Don't misunderstand, I am totally happy with the episodes so far.

As for the acting, that is not me calling sour grapes, because I thought everyone else did a great job, even the kids. But that woman just did not pull it off. The way she spoke Latin sounded like the way I spoke German in high school. Poorly, and with no idea as to what I am saying. LOL It's the same problem I've had with Kate for 6 years, she's just terrible.

As for the Adam and Eve thing, I loved it.

MiB said it, but yeah, exactly. IT seems that no one gets there with out Jacob allowing it. As for why he let the army and what have you on the island, ummmm, maybe he got bored and wanted to watch an action movie or something. LOL

The army brought Jughead and Jughead did something. Even if I still don't know what.

Oh, I know that Opie, but I'm just curious as to why he would bring them there at all considering that he knows what could have happened.