Author Topic: wow wow wow  (Read 6925 times)

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2010, 02:43:16 PM »
If smokeys not the security system then are you saying he never was???? cause ive gone by the hatch painting, ben uncorking, security perimeter fence that he takes care of business against anyone trying to hurt the island???

Does the Hatch painting say "Security System: We Know we invented it"

They knew the security perimeter kept IT out, not what IT is.

As far as Ben being able to call the Smoke Monster, MiB may have known that he would eventually need to use Ben and it would be nice to be on good terms with him. The thing about the uncorking, is that all it tells me is that The Smoke was willing to listen to Ben, not that it was any sort of security system.

LAWYERED

Offline ozman776

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2010, 02:45:17 PM »
So IF mib wasnt thrown down the cave hole , then the world would have nothing to fear if he did somehow get OFF the island??
But because he was thrown down there (were taking the word of a crazy woman who says its worse than death) we now have 2 problems.. keeping the people from across the sea from ever finding it, and keeping an EVIL smoke being from travelling into a world jacob/MIb were told doesnt exist???

using human form Jacob/Mib then the island is just an island...
using magic man jacob who can somehow tell who would be a good candidate from a lighthouse mirror and a smoke monster who uses peoples dead bodies to communicate and manipulate.. the island must remain invisible and undiscovered...

ok how did dharma come across it and was young ben an original candidate brought by jacob???

Offline Abaddons Key

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2010, 02:51:53 PM »
Everything that we learned about Jacob's brother is irrelevant.  He is not the same as MIB.  MIB is smokey. 

This

Jacob's brother died when he went down that hole, it's been the black smoke ever since... I wonder if Jacob knows about smokey's body snatching abilities.  I would think he does being that he laid his brother and "mother" to rest.  What interests me is that this black smoke seems to latch on to those who claim to be "special" as Jacob's bro and Locke both claimed.  Not sure if that is significant though.

The one thing I take from this episode is that this smoke thing is evil.  He claims he wants off the island but not in the same context that Jacob's brother wanted off. 

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2010, 02:51:53 PM »
So IF mib wasnt thrown down the cave hole , then the world would have nothing to fear if he did somehow get OFF the island?? Yes


But because he was thrown down there (were taking the word of a crazy woman who says its worse than death) we now have 2 problems.. keeping the people from across the sea from ever finding it, and keeping an EVIL smoke being from travelling into a world jacob/MIb were told doesnt exist??? Yes

using human form Jacob/Mib then the island is just an island... Not sure what you mean here


using magic man jacob who can somehow tell who would be a good candidate from a lighthouse mirror and a smoke monster who uses peoples dead bodies to communicate and manipulate.. the island must remain invisible and undiscovered... I think so

ok how did dharma come across it and was young ben an original candidate brought by jacob??? Dharma found it the same way Jacob and MiB's ship found it. By Accident. Then they created a bigger problem by making it so they could KEEP finding it. That COULD be why Jacob ordered the Purge, if in fact it was him.

Offline ozman776

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2010, 03:13:04 PM »
using jacob/mib human form... then the island is simply a rock people accidently smash into.... after jacob drinks and mib dies... the island is now a landing place for possible candidates... unless fake mom had a list as long as jacobs and finally came across 2 possible successors...

Offline Madam P

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #50 on: May 12, 2010, 03:19:13 PM »
Until this last episode all the MiB backers felt smokey and MiB were one and the same and don't even try to say you didn't.

Not entirely.  I think a lot of those you refer to as "MiB backers" thought that there was some shade of gray in there -- that Jacob was not going to be as good as we thought, and MIB was not going to be as bad as we thought.  I know that I personally was unsure as to whether or not Smokey was always MIB... I thought it was entirely possible that Smokey was some sort of (power? being?) that either Jacob or MIB could become at any given time -- I thought there were times that Smokey was being "controlled/inhabited" by Jacob and there were times that he was being "controlled/inhabited" by MIB.  And possibly vice-versa -- that there were times that this "power" or "being" manifested itself as Jacob, and sometimes as MIB.  That was why I kept questioning when was Jacob really Jacob.

Just because MIB told Richard "I am the smoke monster" -- well, you say yourself that he lies all the time.  I did think it was a possibility that this statement was a sort of bragging on the part of MIB who was trying to get people to join his team and help him in his effort to get off the island... I don't remember if I ever posted that or not.  It almost reminded me of two little kids, one who says "I caught a cricket" and then the next kid says "Oh yeah?  Well, I caught a frog" and then the first kid says "I caught a giant super-radioactive invisible cricket!" or whatever.  I don't think I ever thought that MIB and only MIB was the smoke monster -- I know I was halfway expecting Jacob to turn into it at some point  (or it to turn into Jacob.)  

Offline lostlady

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #51 on: May 12, 2010, 03:29:03 PM »
Until this last episode all the MiB backers felt smokey and MiB were one and the same and don't even try to say you didn't.

Not entirely.  I think a lot of those you refer to as "MiB backers" thought that there was some shade of gray in there -- that Jacob was not going to be as good as we thought, and MIB was not going to be as bad as we thought.  I know that I personally was unsure as to whether or not Smokey was always MIB... I thought it was entirely possible that Smokey was some sort of (power? being?) that either Jacob or MIB could become at any given time -- I thought there were times that Smokey was being "controlled/inhabited" by Jacob and there were times that he was being "controlled/inhabited" by MIB.  And possibly vice-versa -- that there were times that this "power" or "being" manifested itself as Jacob, and sometimes as MIB.  That was why I kept questioning when was Jacob really Jacob.

Just because MIB told Richard "I am the smoke monster" -- well, you say yourself that he lies all the time.  I did think it was a possibility that this statement was a sort of bragging on the part of MIB who was trying to get people to join his team and help him in his effort to get off the island... I don't remember if I ever posted that or not.  It almost reminded me of two little kids, one who says "I caught a cricket" and then the next kid says "Oh yeah?  Well, I caught a frog" and then the first kid says "I caught a giant super-radioactive invisible cricket!" or whatever.  I don't think I ever thought that MIB and only MIB was the smoke monster -- I know I was halfway expecting Jacob to turn into it at some point  (or it to turn into Jacob.)  

No lies were told imo. The smoke monster is the man we are calling MIB. It is a column of smoke that takes on the form of dead people. Jacob's brother is dead so he is not MIB.  Just like John Locke is not the MIB. They are dead.

Offline zeekloveslost

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #52 on: May 12, 2010, 03:49:04 PM »
I'll also throw in my voice, as one of those dreaded "MIB backers" that I had not concluded that the person we saw sitting on the beach with Jacob was synonymous with the smoke.  For all I knew, he was just one of many bodies that the smoke took the form of.

It's difficult to describe the things we thought when some characters have no names and others take the shapes of other characters. But we'll manage. Without getting too mean.

Offline ozman776

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #53 on: May 12, 2010, 03:53:39 PM »
Up until tonights episode we can deduce that everytime we have seen MIB he was infact Smokey using his form... much like using christians DEAD body, and using yemmis DEAD body...

so knowing this do we really believe how yemmi TREATED eko... or how Christian acted in the cabin are how those people alive would have acted....

my answer is NO.. so how could smokey as MIB be jumped on so quickly as how MIB would have acted???

Offline NoraCharles

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2010, 05:04:29 PM »
Up until tonights episode we can deduce that everytime we have seen MIB he was infact Smokey using his form... much like using christians DEAD body, and using yemmis DEAD body...

Or was Yemmi a ghost (whisper)?

To me the whole 'dead people on the island' adds to the confusion:
Smokey can use dead bodies to take human form. (MIB and Locke for sure, Christian is debated)
People who have died on the island (or not, in the case of Richard's wife) are able to come back as ghosts (whispers) and communicate with the living they choose.

So which dead people have been 'ghosts' and which ones have been 'smokey'? :-\

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2010, 05:10:55 PM »
Until this last episode all the MiB backers felt smokey and MiB were one and the same and don't even try to say you didn't.

Not entirely.  I think a lot of those you refer to as "MiB backers" thought that there was some shade of gray in there -- that Jacob was not going to be as good as we thought, and MIB was not going to be as bad as we thought.  I know that I personally was unsure as to whether or not Smokey was always MIB... I thought it was entirely possible that Smokey was some sort of (power? being?) that either Jacob or MIB could become at any given time -- I thought there were times that Smokey was being "controlled/inhabited" by Jacob and there were times that he was being "controlled/inhabited" by MIB.  And possibly vice-versa -- that there were times that this "power" or "being" manifested itself as Jacob, and sometimes as MIB.  That was why I kept questioning when was Jacob really Jacob.

Just because MIB told Richard "I am the smoke monster" -- well, you say yourself that he lies all the time.  I did think it was a possibility that this statement was a sort of bragging on the part of MIB who was trying to get people to join his team and help him in his effort to get off the island... I don't remember if I ever posted that or not.  It almost reminded me of two little kids, one who says "I caught a cricket" and then the next kid says "Oh yeah?  Well, I caught a frog" and then the first kid says "I caught a giant super-radioactive invisible cricket!" or whatever.  I don't think I ever thought that MIB and only MIB was the smoke monster -- I know I was halfway expecting Jacob to turn into it at some point  (or it to turn into Jacob.)  

Well What I was meaning in my post was that when someone referred to "MiB" it was WIDELY recieved that it was in reference to the Column of Black Smoke that has been assumed to take physical form. During debates when it was brought up and discussed back and forth it was never specified by any of Team MiB that at one point he may have been a man who wasn't pure evil. If it was ever asserted as such, I would have agreed to the possibility. The only time THAT ever got brought up was in speculation that it may be someone we know from the crash. I disagreed with that Idea, but would never have ruled out that MiB was born inherently innocent like everyone else. 

Offline kkevin666

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2010, 05:44:38 PM »
One thing this episode proves is that the writers had no idea who Adam and Eve would turn out to be in the end.  Remember when Jack found the two skeletons in the cave they were wearing modern clothes.  Mother and Brother didn't have modern clothing.  I'm irked by that.  It makes me feel like the ending will be lame and not very well thought out.

You're assuming Jacob does'nt dress them up every 50 years.
He may be pyscho.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2010, 05:46:27 PM »
One thing this episode proves is that the writers had no idea who Adam and Eve would turn out to be in the end.  Remember when Jack found the two skeletons in the cave they were wearing modern clothes.  Mother and Brother didn't have modern clothing.  I'm irked by that.  It makes me feel like the ending will be lame and not very well thought out.

You're assuming Jacob does'nt dress them up every 50 years.
He may be pyscho.

Yeah I would need to see a pic of this to see that they were wearing modern clothes. I thought they were wearing tatters which is why Jack made the comment about how long decom to the clothes would take.

Offline nomteticus

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2010, 08:00:28 PM »
Look, we don't know for sure that Smokey isn't just a vehicle for Jacob's brother soul. There is no evidence to support that theory. On the contrary, since Jacob's brother couldn't be killed by Jacob. Maybe the two entities fused, but there is still some part of Jacob's brother that lives on in Smokey. Smokey obviously feels resentment towards Jacob and his crazy mother, and that can't be just because he stole the memories. The feelings are there. He rejoiced while Ben was killing Jacob since he finally had his revenge. Smokey would only have good words for Jacob, since JACOB CREATED SMOKEY, and not resentment.

I like the parallel to Doctor Manhattan made earlier in this thread, I also found their stories to be similar. A normal guy morphed into an indistructible all-powerful being after some unusual circumstances (physics experiment vs light cave). Was Doctor Manhattan evil? Not really. MIB is like The Elephant Man, hated by everyone. He did do his share of killings, but only as an end to a means, the means being escaping. Once free, I don't think he would unleash hell. What if he just wants to live a normal life as Locke for 40 years or so and then just die? What's evil in that?

Oh, and if Jacob doesn't want people touching his precious light, he better not bring more people to the island! I mean wtf is he thinking? He is the source of all evil: he refused to leave his crazy mom and go with his brother, he trapped (yes, trapped, not killed) his brother into Smokey, he probably brought his own killer to the island (Ben+Locke), and for what? To prove a point? Jacob is really the less intelligent of the twins.

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: wow wow wow
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2010, 10:45:41 AM »

I like the parallel to Doctor Manhattan made earlier in this thread, I also found their stories to be similar. A normal guy morphed into an indistructible all-powerful being after some unusual circumstances (physics experiment vs light cave). Was Doctor Manhattan evil? Not really. MIB is like The Elephant Man, hated by everyone. He did do his share of killings, but only as an end to a means, the means being escaping. Once free, I don't think he would unleash hell. What if he just wants to live a normal life as Locke for 40 years or so and then just die? What's evil in that?

Oh, and if Jacob doesn't want people touching his precious light, he better not bring more people to the island! I mean wtf is he thinking? He is the source of all evil: he refused to leave his crazy mom and go with his brother, he trapped (yes, trapped, not killed) his brother into Smokey, he probably brought his own killer to the island (Ben+Locke), and for what? To prove a point? Jacob is really the less intelligent of the twins.

Alright I addressed your "Dr. Manhattan" Reference in another thread. As for the last paragraph you have there. The reason he now has to bring people to the island is to find his own replacement. He KNOWS MiB is searching for a loophole to kill him. He doesn't know what that loophole is going to be. Without a protector of the island, MiB would be free. I think he created a game in which there are two things to defend against, and defending one risks losing the other.