Author Topic: Problem with the bomb.....  (Read 1121 times)

Offline Thomas

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Problem with the bomb.....
« on: May 11, 2010, 01:13:56 PM »
If Jack can't light a stick of dynamite to blow himself up, why can sawyer (also on the candidate list and touched by Jacob) pull a wire and ignite a bomb to kill himself.    It would seem that if Jack was right, then the bomb couldn't go off as set by Locke, then it should have also been true that none of the candidates should have been able to trigger the bomb that would kill themselves either.    Michael couldn't kill himself....but Saywer could?   Seems like a hole to me.   

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Problem with the bomb.....
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2010, 01:39:31 PM »
If Jack can't light a stick of dynamite to blow himself up, why can sawyer (also on the candidate list and touched by Jacob) pull a wire and ignite a bomb to kill himself.    It would seem that if Jack was right, then the bomb couldn't go off as set by Locke, then it should have also been true that none of the candidates should have been able to trigger the bomb that would kill themselves either.    Michael couldn't kill himself....but Saywer could?   Seems like a hole to me.   

Nope.  Sawyer is alive. Jin, Sun, and Sayid were killed by Sawyer messing with the bomb. The cause of death was shifted from MiB's shoulders to Sawyer as soon as he altered the bomb. The pulling of the wires was not an attempt to kill himslef like a bullet or dynamite would be. He was trying to save people and it was not his intention to kill himself, which by rule must be present in a suicide. This is why Sawyer pulling the wires does not qualify as killing himself.

Offline CaseyMac

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Re: Problem with the bomb.....
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2010, 03:20:50 PM »
If Jack can't light a stick of dynamite to blow himself up, why can sawyer (also on the candidate list and touched by Jacob) pull a wire and ignite a bomb to kill himself.    It would seem that if Jack was right, then the bomb couldn't go off as set by Locke, then it should have also been true that none of the candidates should have been able to trigger the bomb that would kill themselves either.    Michael couldn't kill himself....but Saywer could?   Seems like a hole to me.   

Nope.  Sawyer is alive. Jin, Sun, and Sayid were killed by Sawyer messing with the bomb. The cause of death was shifted from MiB's shoulders to Sawyer as soon as he altered the bomb. The pulling of the wires was not an attempt to kill himslef like a bullet or dynamite would be. He was trying to save people and it was not his intention to kill himself, which by rule must be present in a suicide. This is why Sawyer pulling the wires does not qualify as killing himself.

I pretty much agree with this. I just think that they can't intentionally kill themselves, however they can still die. There is a difference between accidentally killing yourself by doing something dumb (i.e. the darwin awards), and intentionally committing suicide.

Offline Madam P

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Re: Problem with the bomb.....
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2010, 04:14:47 PM »
I just thought of this... wonder what would've happened with John Locke up on that table in that hotel room if Ben hadn't come along and "helped him along" with dying?  Probably would've been like Michael, huh?  Like the rope would've broken or something?

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Problem with the bomb.....
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2010, 04:28:11 PM »
I just thought of this... wonder what would've happened with John Locke up on that table in that hotel room if Ben hadn't come along and "helped him along" with dying?  Probably would've been like Michael, huh?  Like the rope would've broken or something?

Yup it appears so.

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Problem with the bomb.....
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2010, 02:47:04 PM »
If the rules are in affect across the board, then yes, Locke's rope would have broken.  And not to disagree with you, IAJ, but I don't think the 'suicide' attempt has to be intentional to fail.  In other words, it would seem that Sayid, Jin and Sun died because of Sawyers actions, but I think if Sayid hadn't moved the bomb away from Sawyer, it still wouldn't have gone off because Sawyer can't die as a result of his own actions.  I like this idea better because it throws in the twist that Sayid is actually the one to blame.  I'm probably making too much of these rules, I know, but if they aren't going to give us definite answers about things like these, then I'm going to make up my own!  ;)

Offline I_Am_Jacob

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Re: Problem with the bomb.....
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2010, 02:55:38 PM »
If the rules are in affect across the board, then yes, Locke's rope would have broken.  And not to disagree with you, IAJ, but I don't think the 'suicide' attempt has to be intentional to fail.  In other words, it would seem that Sayid, Jin and Sun died because of Sawyers actions, but I think if Sayid hadn't moved the bomb away from Sawyer, it still wouldn't have gone off because Sawyer can't die as a result of his own actions.  I like this idea better because it throws in the twist that Sayid is actually the one to blame.  I'm probably making too much of these rules, I know, but if they aren't going to give us definite answers about things like these, then I'm going to make up my own!  ;)

Haha. Yeah Either way the bomb blew up. However I think that if a suicide is unitentional, by definition, it can't be called a suicide. Just my thoughts.

Offline Madam P

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Re: Problem with the bomb.....
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2010, 10:51:22 PM »
If the rules are in affect across the board, then yes, Locke's rope would have broken.  And not to disagree with you, IAJ, but I don't think the 'suicide' attempt has to be intentional to fail.  In other words, it would seem that Sayid, Jin and Sun died because of Sawyers actions, but I think if Sayid hadn't moved the bomb away from Sawyer, it still wouldn't have gone off because Sawyer can't die as a result of his own actions.  I like this idea better because it throws in the twist that Sayid is actually the one to blame.  I'm probably making too much of these rules, I know, but if they aren't going to give us definite answers about things like these, then I'm going to make up my own!  ;)

This is a depressing thought... so, if Sawyer had only been as brave as Sayid and grabbed the bomb and run off with it like Sayid did, then it wouldn't have gone off, Sayid wouldn't have died, and Jin and Sun wouldn't have died.  Wow.  Ultimate Sawyer fail.   :-\

Offline lostfan777

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Re: Problem with the bomb.....
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2010, 10:27:38 AM »
If the rules are in affect across the board, then yes, Locke's rope would have broken.  And not to disagree with you, IAJ, but I don't think the 'suicide' attempt has to be intentional to fail.  In other words, it would seem that Sayid, Jin and Sun died because of Sawyers actions, but I think if Sayid hadn't moved the bomb away from Sawyer, it still wouldn't have gone off because Sawyer can't die as a result of his own actions.  I like this idea better because it throws in the twist that Sayid is actually the one to blame.  I'm probably making too much of these rules, I know, but if they aren't going to give us definite answers about things like these, then I'm going to make up my own!  ;)

This is a depressing thought... so, if Sawyer had only been as brave as Sayid and grabbed the bomb and run off with it like Sayid did, then it wouldn't have gone off, Sayid wouldn't have died, and Jin and Sun wouldn't have died.  Wow.  Ultimate Sawyer fail.   :-\

For a while, Sawyer stepped up his game and took charge and refused to let Jack or anyone determine his actions.  I think by ignoring Jack's faith that they would be OK, and as a result killing S,S&J, this will leave Sawyer a bit humbled and probably more than a little forgiving of Jack for causing Juliet's death.  S**T happens.  We all make mistakes.  The result of this one is that it will probably take a lot of the wind out of his sails and he will be more likely to get behind Jack as the new leader, which it seems he was meant to be since the crash.

Offline Madam P

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Re: Problem with the bomb.....
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2010, 07:26:52 PM »
Agreed.