It's all a big set up...!?!

[PurpleLostPrincess]

I find it hard to believe that Widmore only had 2 men guarding the plane, that explosive/C4 was rather obvious and in sight - then the submarine appears to be unguarded, until after they got into it... It's not just a case of 'where is Widmore and his people?'; for me it's a case of 'why has he let all this happen?'. It's all too fishy for me - not to mention that I would have got a fish biscuit as soon as I'd got in the cages lol   

Also, just noticed that Flocke takes the watch from the dead guard before he gets into the plane to inspect it - like he knew he was going to need it!!!

My mind is boggling!!!!!!!!!!!

[I_Am_Jacob]

I find it hard to believe that Widmore only had 2 men guarding the plane, that explosive/C4 was rather obvious and in sight - then the submarine appears to be unguarded, until after they got into it... It's not just a case of 'where is Widmore and his people?'; for me it's a case of 'why has he let all this happen?'. It's all too fishy for me - not to mention that I would have got a fish biscuit as soon as I'd got in the cages lol   

Also, just noticed that Flocke takes the watch from the dead guard before he gets into the plane to inspect it - like he knew he was going to need it!!!

My mind is boggling!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah I think I am settling on the theory that the pre-plane watch grab is because he scanned the goons and saw the trap set. Just a thought to help me make sense of everything.

[WhatThe]

Ben has NOTHING on FLocke when it comes to manipulating people into doing exactly what he wants lol.

[MachThree]

One thing that didn't make sense is the relocation of the fence pylons to be closer to the cages - I mean it seemed like They had all of hydra island covered or at least the area around the hydra station, including the cages.  Why were the pylons relocated then? 

As for the bomb on the plane - I thought Flocke seemed to know exactly where it was before he even went into the plane - either that or he has a hell of an intuition.  Maybe via the same ability that let him know the sub had sunken, he was able to detect the bomb.

[lostandfree]

I also thought it was very weird that there were no guards on the outside of the sub.  That was odd to me.  Widmore must be around somewhere, he must know what's going on.  I'm sure he knew when Smokey blew through his camp and took out his people.  Where was he?  When I saw that there were no guards outside the sub I thought it was going to be a setup, like Widmore and co. were watching from the bushes, but then they got inside and there were people down there and no one jumped out of the bushes.  It was just all very weird.

[BobBX542]

Sorry, but I had to...



Now that that is out of the way, PLP IS AWESOME!! Love your posts, and in response, it seemed to me that Widmore kind reached the point where it was just an issue of being back on the island. The guards outside of the plane, "sacrificial lambs" if you will. Maybe Widmore hoped that they would be able to stop MIB, but didn't count on it. As for the guards out side of the Sub, could have been that they were there to keep MIB off the sub, or keep anyone from getting out.

[jamesl]

I have no problem with the lack of guards
after all, there were only so many people that could have fit into the submarine and come to the island to begin with

Sayid killed 2 guards last episode, Flocke killed a 3 or 4 by the cages
there couldn't be that many left

I have no idea how he knew to get the watch before hand

[lostfromthestart]

That was a lot of Red Shirts....

[PurpleLostPrincess]

Sorry, but I had to...



Now that that is out of the way, PLP IS AWESOME!! Love your posts, and in response, it seemed to me that Widmore kind reached the point where it was just an issue of being back on the island. The guards outside of the plane, "sacrificial lambs" if you will. Maybe Widmore hoped that they would be able to stop MIB, but didn't count on it. As for the guards out side of the Sub, could have been that they were there to keep MIB off the sub, or keep anyone from getting out.

Bob!!! Love your posts too, you ROCK!!!!

Yes, I'm liking your perspective on the guards shooting after Jack et al got in the sub, it could be they were making sure MIB didn't get on it, for reasons which I guess are to be revealed, I'm soooooo excited!!!!!!!!!

The more I think about it since watching the second time around, the more I'm convinced it HAS to be a set up... Widmore must have briefed his people that Flocke is really the monster, so they would have known what to look out for... Widmore went to great lengths to protect Desmond before and yet he doesn't seem to have anybody out looking for him, even though Zoe saw him beeing taken by Sayid. Widmore knows from Saywer that Flocke is intending to leave the island, but doesn't have the only means of that guarded...? (at least not very well anyway) I don't buy it...!!!

BUT, having said that, the fact that Flocke planted the bomb in Jack's bag is also a bit of a twist, because if he was intending to be on the sub, why give the bomb to Jack? Surely the two can't be working together, or at least for the same reasons...?!? Nnnoooooooo, forget I said that!! 

[CastawayCayley]

BUT, having said that, the fact that Flocke planted the bomb in Jack's bag is also a bit of a twist, because if he was intending to be on the sub, why give the bomb to Jack? Surely the two can't be working together, or at least for the same reasons...?!? Nnnoooooooo, forget I said that!! 

The reason for giving Jack the backpack with the bomb, as I see it anyway, was as a security measure for Locke. He plants a bomb with a timer in Jack's backpack. If they get on without him they blow up. If he gets on with them he turns to Jack and says, "Um, can I see your backpack for just a sec?" and then dismantles the bomb. He knew there was a chance they would betray him.

[I_Am_Jacob]

BUT, having said that, the fact that Flocke planted the bomb in Jack's bag is also a bit of a twist, because if he was intending to be on the sub, why give the bomb to Jack? Surely the two can't be working together, or at least for the same reasons...?!? Nnnoooooooo, forget I said that!! 

The reason for giving Jack the backpack with the bomb, as I see it anyway, was as a security measure for Locke. He plants a bomb with a timer in Jack's backpack. If they get on without him they blow up. If he gets on with them he turns to Jack and says, "Um, can I see your backpack for just a sec?" and then dismantles the bomb. He knew there was a chance they would betray him.

Yeah I think all he wanted to do was kill them. This is evident when he told Claire he was going to "Finish what he started" He's off to kill those who are left alive. Somehow, some way.

[conway]

I might have thought that Widmore and Zoe could have made the group blow up
with the power that was sent accurately to the other island.
Part of me wonders if Widmore and Smokey are  working together to clear the island of inhabitants.  Flocke could leave via the donkey wheel or on the Elizabeth and Widmore could bring in a  ship  to start to take advantage of the island's resources.
Good thing we have Richard and  Ben , both knowing all about the island.  Perhaps they will be the cavalry coming to save the day. And if our group rescues Desmond.  I keep hoping that Jacob's ashes will be a way to kill off Flocke...somehow the ashes to contain him have been a thing of the past. I would think Jacob's ashes must be very strong and maybe they will be thrown at him and he will melt like the Wicked Witch.

[opgelost]

BUT, having said that, the fact that Flocke planted the bomb in Jack's bag is also a bit of a twist, because if he was intending to be on the sub, why give the bomb to Jack? Surely the two can't be working together, or at least for the same reasons...?!? Nnnoooooooo, forget I said that!! 

The reason for giving Jack the backpack with the bomb, as I see it anyway, was as a security measure for Locke. He plants a bomb with a timer in Jack's backpack. If they get on without him they blow up. If he gets on with them he turns to Jack and says, "Um, can I see your backpack for just a sec?" and then dismantles the bomb. He knew there was a chance they would betray him.

The problem is that Jack was not planned to be on the sub. He told MIB a lot of times that he was going to stay on the island. He told Kate that he was not meant to return. He told Sawyer too. He was only on the sub, because Kate was shot and Sawyer closed the hatch. Jack even asks Sawyer what he is doing when he lockes Jack in. MIB asks Jack if he really wants to stay and who told him that he needed to stay and Jack tells him it was Locke.
I think that MIB's plan was to leave with them on the sub and kill Jack with the bomb to be sure that there would be no-one on the island to replace Jacob. Maybe he could know that Sawyer is not to be trusted and would try to leave without him, but how could he know Jack and the bomb would be on the sub too and that Kate would get shot?

[CaseyMac]

First, Princess, great discussion to bring up. And Bob, you actually helped convince me with that Return of the Jedi reference. The whole sub skirmish was almost exactly like what happened in ROTJ. Let the rebels get in the back door, and as soon as they are cornered, spring the trap. The only thing the empire didn't count on was the ewoks coming to the rescue. So, does that mean that Richard, Miles, and Ben will be the ewoks? If we see Ben up in a tree blowing a horn as a signal too attack, i'll giggle like a giddy school boy.

[I_Am_Jacob]

BUT, having said that, the fact that Flocke planted the bomb in Jack's bag is also a bit of a twist, because if he was intending to be on the sub, why give the bomb to Jack? Surely the two can't be working together, or at least for the same reasons...?!? Nnnoooooooo, forget I said that!! 

The reason for giving Jack the backpack with the bomb, as I see it anyway, was as a security measure for Locke. He plants a bomb with a timer in Jack's backpack. If they get on without him they blow up. If he gets on with them he turns to Jack and says, "Um, can I see your backpack for just a sec?" and then dismantles the bomb. He knew there was a chance they would betray him.

The problem is that Jack was not planned to be on the sub. He told MIB a lot of times that he was going to stay on the island. He told Kate that he was not meant to return. He told Sawyer too. He was only on the sub, because Kate was shot and Sawyer closed the hatch. Jack even asks Sawyer what he is doing when he lockes Jack in. MIB asks Jack if he really wants to stay and who told him that he needed to stay and Jack tells him it was Locke.
I think that MIB's plan was to leave with them on the sub and kill Jack with the bomb to be sure that there would be no-one on the island to replace Jacob. Maybe he could know that Sawyer is not to be trusted and would try to leave without him, but how could he know Jack and the bomb would be on the sub too and that Kate would get shot?

NO NO NO NO NO. How many times have we seen a character know more than they let on. It is all one big chess game to MiB and he has become an EXPERT in the game. He KNEW Jack would help everyone get on the sub. He told MiB as much. He said he wouldn't leave with them. As soon as Jack was on the sub MiB starts shooting the attackers. Not turning into black smoke and dispatching them quickly. He made it seem to Sawyer that he was preoccupied. MiB knew exactly how the Losties would react to the situation. He knew that as soon as the group was on the Sub Sawyer would pull away. He knew Jack would make it on the Sub because Jack is not the kind of person to help people half way. He would have escorted them onto the sub until it was safe and then gotten out of the sub. Again you are completely neglecting the final line of the night from MiB. "To finish what I started" You think that means he's going to go repremand them for bailing without him and then get them all on a plane with him? NO he is going to try to get them all killed again.

Yet another instance where I told you so and you wouldn't believe it. I told you his master plan was to get them all together and kill them and you wouldn't listen. Now your ideas don't sound far fetched they just sound foolish and desperate. I know, I know, I'm mean and all.